Hi, a friend of mine recently read me this quoted passage from a book that was read by his entire eldership team a few years back.
I thought it was incredibly relevant and well worth sharing.
The book is "Miracle workers, Reformers, and The New Mystics" by John Crowder
"The reason nearly evey move of God tends to stagnate, is because it judges the last move of God. We become what we judge. If we judge religious people and hypocrites , we eventually become religious hypocrites. Never critisize the old wine skin, just let it be. The wine itself will burst the old jug. And and it will eventually burst yours. There is no quicker way into bondage than falling into spiritual pride and thinking we are on the cutting edge of what God is doing. That we have somehow ascended beyond where the old order got stuck. First of all, we dont know all that the old order had to put up with, and what spiritual ground they broke through on our behalf.
It is important not to adopt a rebellious spirit, and to remember that our battle is not against flesh and blood. Yes, religion is a foul thing. But religious people are often just wounded Christians seeking identity and comfort in the wrong places. To criticize the old guard is often a sign that we are still operating out of rejection, and somehow needing their affirmation rather than the Lord's. Truly mature Christians, who have overcome insecurity, will see people beyond the veil of their religious bondage and empathize with the hurts that landed them there."
One thing we should all be very careful of is to not become so "Anti" something that we forget about being "Pro" the thing God has actually called us to. This, I believe is to have an "anti religious, religious spirit", and is very easy to partner with and equally harmful to the Body. It will continue to keep your eyes predominantly off Jesus and His finished work and rather get you predominantly stuck in dry theology and pointless arguments against fellow Christians.
Those who believe and share the Truth/Revelation of the Gospel that is being understood across the planet in these days, that carries with it transforming Glory to set even the most bound-up captives free, will certainly become the targets of this trap. If satan can get you to fight and argue with fellow believers, then what you know becomes ineffective against his kingdom.
Am I saying, don't share and discuss the Gospel with fellow Christians who dont yet see things the way you have come to? Certainly not. But, if your peace does not rest with them, and they are scuffing dirt and making a mockery of the Good News, then shake the dirt off your shoes of peace and move on - finished! (Perhaps at a later stage try again).
It is so important for us to not get distracted away from the simplicity of the Gospel. Dont get sucked into never ending debates with people that are clearly not interested in changing their view. Their are by far, more that are waiting to encounter the reality of Jesus through the Gospel of Grace than those that satan would use to suck up your time in vain distraction.
Keep His Love Flowing
God Blessed you
Andrew
Ooh, i lurve the gospel. Nothing brings freedom like Grace !!!!
ReplyDeleteVery good bru! So true.
ReplyDeleteAwesome Andrew! I think it natural that for people who have been stuck for so long in a religious structure initially (when they hear the good news) will come out with guns blazing against anything that remotely smells of religion. I think its only because they realise the danger of it and how much its robbed them of understanding their freedom in Christ, BUT (i like big but's and i cannot lie) once this revelation of grace takes root it naturally flows out and you become merciful with people who are where you were 1,2,3,4, or 5 years ago... and in your passion and love for them you share the glorious good news!! see you sunday
ReplyDeletewell said mate- simple, to the point and no room for pointless arguments. sterkte!
ReplyDeleteHi Gents...
ReplyDeleteI like the way Sean puts it...
Hows this...?
Ever heard of "Anti-religious, religious, religious" people...
What about "Anti-religious, religious, religious, religious" people...
Where do you draw the line? I understand the reasoning behind the post...but in the end it might be best to be anti-religious people who preach the gospel of Gods grace and let the Holy Spirit bring the tempering where and when its needed...
Keep the grace amazing!!
Hey Andrew,
ReplyDeleteI agree with what you say. It's as if you took the words right out of my mouth. Ha ha ha.
Let's not only preach grace but be gracious and live in and create an atmosphere of grace.
Brad Dearlove
Hey there you bunch of cool okes...
ReplyDeleteI believe there are two threads of thought here…
1. Sometimes the “ungracious behaviour” is NOT “ungracious behaviour”…
I have personally been accused of this type of behaviour…even when I believe I haven’t been. Paul getting up and confronting Peter to his face that day would definitely have seemed ungracious to quite a few people in the room. Was he being ungracious? Not as far as God was concerned.
2. The “ungracious behaviour” IS “ungracious behaviour”
As "grace" preachers (maybe you don't like that term, but you know what i mean ;-) we say to people that “under grace we become holier by accident than we ever tried too on purpose under the law" (Andrew Wommack)...
How fast does this "holiness" (in behavior) take place? Well obviously we know it depends on the person, some start changing instantly, some longer, some longer still and some even longer...do we “beat” them and tell them they are not changing fast enough...no, we keep preaching Christ and the finished work of the cross knowing that Grace is teaching them to say no to “their” ungodly behaviour, Grace is aligning them to their true new nature reality...
Now, is being ungracious, ungodly? Yes it is...is being ungracious, sinning? Some would say so. Is being ungracious being unholy, i would think so...
So i could say this, to warn a person of ungracious behaviour is the same as warning them of their sinning, their ungodliness, their unholiness...
Am I for sinning, no... Am i for ungodly behavior, no...Am i for unholy behavior, no...I am for bringing people out from under law mentality (which IS the root for all ungodly, unholy sinning BTW) and into grace, which IS the key for holy powerful living.
Ungracious behaviour (aka anti-religious, religious) is at the end of the day still referencing people’s behaviour...and that is the very thing we know only the gospel has the power to change…
I know at Gracelife I have never told/preached to people that they “need” to be gracious to other believers because they have come under grace…were there some guys who were angry etc?…yes, most of us had some sort of emotions that we were dealing with…I just kept preaching Grace, Christ and him crucified…2 years on, I am seeing people more enamored with Jesus than from where they came, or who they came out under from, and being more gracious towards those who are "coming into grace" and those who refuse to "come into grace"...
My point, preach the gospel and the Holy Spirit will do the rest…
Ps….
By writing this you might say I am disagreeing with John Crowder’s theology…all I know is that that book was written quite a few years ago. I don’t know John personally but I do know Ben Dunn fairly well…have had him in my home a few times, had him at Gracelife twice, been on a mission trip with him and have a had a couple of meals with him…In all the time I have spent with him, he has never stressed this thing about being "anti religious, religious" to me and I think I know why…
Till we write again…
...at the end of the day, will it effect me in any way to "eat meat sacrificed to idols"?...Absalutely NOT...NEVER (maybe a bit of heartburn hahaha), but is there a wise and SUGGESTED time not to eat it...well paul suggested it. Not to judge and bind, but to consider your brother incase his conscious should be troubled (since he may still be bound in that regard)....but I hear all, and love it.
ReplyDeleteGrace to ya!!
...sorry...I could have worded that a bit better hahaha, I was in a rush :-)
ReplyDeleteI would never want to suggest to anyone to put a lid on their passion for how free they are...that would be silly. But I think Paul was talking to people who knew so well how free they were, and were parading it in a way that those who didn't quite catch it yet were beginning to feel condemned for what they at present were feeling/believing...
If the gospel offends people...tough (you know what I mean hahaha), If we offend people by parading our freedom, well, it's no law, but let's be wise..."All things to all men..."
love T
...at the end of the day (its night time);-)
ReplyDeleteI think we talking about different things here Troy..
"If we offend people by parading our freedom"...
The heading of the blog is "Dont be an anti-religious, religious person", as i understand it and as i have been posting, we are talking about people who are being "ungracious" toward those who preach a mixture of law or grace and/or those coming out from that..
Here's what Paul had to say about those mixing it up...
Gal 1:8 "But even if we or an angel from heaven should proclaim to you a gospel contrary to what we proclaimed to you, let that person be condemned!" ISV
...and we wanting to tone people down? Maybe we should be "toning" people up...maybe we should let the Holy spirit determine the tone...don't know about you, but i know what i will be doing...
...anyway, that's me...over and out.
...fair enough...I think our lines are getting crossed hahaha...I wasn't disagreeing, just adding...
ReplyDeleteHello
ReplyDeleteThe point of the article was to remind brothers to keep keeping it real... to remain more conscious of the Good News rather than the "bad news" that some fellow brothers and sisters are calling the Gospel, which is really no Gospel at all.
To be a "Doctrine Watchdog" is not a new testament gift used to "bless" others who couldn't care less to be corrected. These are ones whom we should avoid getting into endless debates with.
Of course there will be some who are sincere in their "wrongness". These are the ones that we should spend time sharing the reason for the hope that we have.
"How do you know who is just an "arguer" or who is genuinely wanting the truth?"
That will be revealed by the Spirit - The peace of Christ rules that decision (Col 3:15). If you have no peace, and the person is just a fault finding arguer, then shake the old shoes and tune "cheers mate, Jesus loves you, see you later crocodile"
As for addressing those who are blatantly opposing the Gospel (by action - Like Peters eating (going back under Law), or teaching - Like Galatians Judaizers), Paul certainly leaves room for that in order to protect those who were being deceived.
His motive, however, was one of Love for the Gospel, and not Hate for religion. He even says at one point - because of his love for those still under the Law and currently rejecting the Gospel - that he would give up his own salvation if it were possible that they could catch the gospel. These were some of the very same people that were persecuting him!
Sometimes he runs for his life, sometimes he is forced to run (he himself wanted to stay), sometimes he stayed and spoke to those who invited him to stay and wanted to hear him, sometimes he spoke to those who did not invite him and did not want to hear him. Sometime he was welcomed by those who did not invite him. But through all of this he was compelled by Gods Love for him and others - the Gospel.
Lets feast on the Lamb who was slain for us because watching and pointing at others who are still feasting on a pair of stone tablets can never satisfy.
There will often be wrong believing and teaching around, but lets only give attention to whatever is directly impacting our sphere of influence. Paul says of other apostles/"gospel sharers" that he wont boast of anything they have done outside of his sphere of influence - namely, the congregations that he had started/shared with.
JC.... (John Crowder - lol!!) recently shared about staying away from pointless internet arguments with fellow believers that will suck you in and waste your time.... and for what?... to win an argument???
Come on now guys!! The Gospel is Beautifully bigger than that.
Love
Paul warned the church of teachers that wanted to put the saints under the “law” (Gal 2). Peter warned the church of teachers who obscured liberty for indulges to the flesh (2Pet 2:18-22). Both wanted to approach God through a form of Religion. The first wanted to approach God, through their performances. The second tried to approach God, through liberating knowledge. Both are actually religious, by thinking that we approach God through performances or right doctrine. Christ said that HE is the way the truth and the life and no man can come to the Father except through Him. Christ is our grace, our law of liberty, our rock, our bread of life, our living waters, the manna from heaven, our life, our destiny, our wisdom, our Saviour, our God.
ReplyDeleteChristianity is not about performances or having the right doctrine. It is about having the right Person. Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Many times our faith becomes about who believes what, instead of in whom we believe. It is about a relationship, not so? Again, our relationship is therefore not in what we believe, but in WHOM we believe.
Yes we do rebuke people who try to teach people to approach God through their performances. But we also aught to rebuke people who teach we are to base our stance with God and each other by having the right doctrine. When people have Christ, then it is neither; doctrine or works, but about a child holding his or her Father’s hand as they gurney into the everlasting kingdom. That is why I think Andrew hits the nail on the head.
As i said, i like the way Sean put it...they "will come out with guns blazing against anything that remotely smells of religion"...
ReplyDeleteI personally know people like this (maybe you were one too) But over time, their bullets changed to flowers and no-one told them to change their ammo...
PS...Andrew, you started the argument by enabling comments. . . ;0
Blissings Brothers...
Nice one! I think the "debate" is good and healthy.
ReplyDelete"Grace creates an atmosphere for growth. If there is crud, it too will grow along with all the good stuff" - paraphrase of Bill.
When us "Gracers" (as we have "affectionately" been named), begin to grow/mature in effortless communion with Love... ie: effortlessly changing bullets to flowers -(thats an awesome picture!), then we can be sure that Grace has taken root and maturing is happening.
The trick.... keep feasting on the finished work weather we are producing ammo or flowers because the Finished Work produces the constant atmosphere of amazing grace that will produce one degree of Glory to the next in and through all who would dare to believe.
Whether it is Grace or Law, if it is outside of Christ it is just another lemon tree (Religion). To me, you are neither “Gracers”, “Lawers”, or “Mixers”, but just brothers and sisters. When Christ is ALL in ALL then love and fellowship (communion) is our nature. This I truly believe. Thanks for all your input, - thought provoking.
ReplyDelete