Tuesday, March 9, 2010

Feasting on the Evidence

Hi guys, i have not written for a while because I simply have not been able to express what Ive been feeling in my heart, and I have not had a chunk of time to sit down and put it all down in writing.
I came across this which is very much in line with the Freedom and love of God that has become something of an inexpressible reality in my heart.
There is just so much more in the realms of tangible love for us.

"As we are now absorbed into a new Kingdom with a new King that reigns in our new hearts, I feel it wise for us to know what this Kingdom consists of. After all, if one never knows, how can one experience its treasures?

The Apostle Paul is genius in communicating this kingdoms ingredients and I feel it necessary to add nothing to His words. Romans 14:17 "[After all] the Kingdom of God is not a matter of [getting the ] food and drink [ one likes ] , but instead it is righteousness [ that state which makes a person acceptable to God] and [heart] peace and joy in the Holy Ghost.-amp. Righteousness, peace and joy, amazingly, are the evidence of the Kingdom of God.

The Great Gospel of imparted righteousness is in continual orbit around this glorious King and His Kingdom; Like the living creatures surrounding the throne continually singing, "Holy, Holy, Holy". All of heaven is enraptured in the ecstasy of His holiness and astonished that this holiness has been graced to us!

This holiness and righteousness is not attained by self-submission and self-obedience. No, this righteousness can only be drunk down as a gift. For no other kind of righteousness can stand before His presence. No other dance floor can hold His Joy and His Glory. Nothing but an unearned, unachieved, glorious gift!

In turn this Happy Message produces in a man such heart filling peace and enamoring joy that he realizes that he need nothing else. This man, that receives such a glorious existence given only by such a glorious God, becomes completely satisfied!

This is the state of Kingdom existence. Ecstatic satisfaction! This is what the Gospel affords and imparts to those who believe.

Many other things are mistaken to be evidence of Kingdom fullness. These are twisted ideas that measure a mans nearness to the Lord by a mans gift of miracles, encounters, ability or works. Such notions that leave room only for self-achievement, self-attainment and eventually lead to self-disappointment. When one gives his heart over to such a system of believing he forgets the very heart of the true Gospel, which is simple childlike faith. Instead of trusting in the ability of God, one finds himself in a place where his efforts are needed to produce the desired result. Whether it be miracles, holiness or any other good thing.

Language, then, also follows suit and what is heard from the mans tongue is no longer the glories of The Gift, but rather a boast in the need to pursue and to press. The song sung to the well of salvation is no longer heard.

The Jews were guilty because they demanded signs and wonders but missed the scandalous Grand Miracle, which was Christ coming to dwell in their hearts. The crime I believe was not the wanting of the miraculous but missing it when it came. The Greeks were equally guilty in their want for wisdom but again they missed Christ, who is the manifold wisdom of God. All of us are guilty of this subtle mesmerizing of the soul, but as subtle as it may be it leads to a polluted and stagnant pool. Surrendering to such ideas build up for ourselves a kingdom made of salt and castles made of sand, which inevitably fall with the changing of the wind.

Religion always wants something additional to simple faith and trust. Of course miracles do come, but they come at the call of faith. Jesus said that the signs would follow those who believe upon the Gospel. Believing upon the joyful message of what Christ has done is all that God really wants.

Let me put forth a simple truth. God does not need our help! This is a simple yet revolutionary truth. He does the miraculous sovereignly and independent of our striving, achieving or lack thereof. Paul in Galatians 3 reminds the bewitched Galatian church that Christ did miraculous and wondrous, supernatural things not according to their law rituals of fasting and self denial, but according to their clinging to and trusting in the message of the Gospel.

Yes, let us desire miracles and the endless, wondrous realms of heaven. But don't forget that heaven is at our hands. Forget not that heaven has invaded our hearts like a king conquering a foreign land needing permission from none. Forget not that Jesus is heaven and that He does not come and go. He abides with us and in us always. He, once and for all, opened heaven for all to taste and to drink their fill.

It's not just the for few who can press in for it. No, it is for all who believe! Don't take your eyes off of the Grand Miracle of a life possessed by God.

Scour the scriptures if you dare and see what you find. But be carful, major foundations of what you believe may be shaken and may even fall to their knees and bow to the Majestic Gospel.

The true evidence of fullness of the Kingdom and its realities is childlike faith being empowered and expressed by love. When this simple truth arrests a mans heart he sets sail on an endless ocean of bliss. The measuring rod of comparison is tossed overboard. The storms of un-fulfillment and disappointment disintegrate into nothing. No longer let down by the lack of seeing the miraculous, he is absorbed in a gaze at THE Miracle. Heaven is the wind in his sails and signs and wonders ripple endlessly behind. This man sings the melody of faith endlessly and joyously, like a drunken sailor singing after having too much rum. This is the true evidence of the realities of the Kingdom.

Let this be your song, let it drip from your lips like sticky honey dripping from the comb. Let all who hear it taste its sweetness and be addicted to its effects upon their soul."

Guys, how simple is this!!
Oh God, reveal the hugeness of your love for us, to us that we could represent this reality to others!!!

God Blessed you


  1. Interesting post, but what do you makie of: "Let me put forth a simple truth. God does not need our help! This is a simple yet revolutionary truth. He does the miraculous sovereignly and independent of our striving, achieving or lack thereof. Paul in Galatians 3 reminds the bewitched Galatian church that Christ did miraculous and wondrous, supernatural things not according to their law rituals of fasting and self denial, but according to their clinging to and trusting in the message of the Gospel."

    If "Christ did miraculous and wondrous, supernatural things...according to their clinging to and trusting" how can that be "sovereign(ly) and independent"? There is a link to our "obedience" (not a swear word, but a blessing when a son listens to his father's wisdom) and the miraculous being experienced on planet earth. I know what the author (who is he/she, btw?) is trying to say, but I think the "presenting of ourselves as instruments of righteousness" is not equal to "striving, achieving or lack thereof".

    I delight in being an instrument and am fully comfortable with God's design that without me declaring the finished work of the cross, the multitudes will stay in bondage to the devil (be it demons, sickness, addictions, anger or religion). That entails the awesome privilege (and responsibility) to set the captives free. Never to earn more acceptance. Never to feel more loved. Never to be more righteous. But because I am the righteousness of Christ, I re-present him now that he has gone to be with the Father and is living in me.

    Therefore I delight in doing things that inconvenient me so that others are set free. This gospel is not about me lying in his presence alone. I experience his inexpressible joy equally when I am alone in the throne room as much as when I am casting out demons. The one is for my pleasure. The latter is for another's pleasure.

    Could we be in danger of presenting a self-indulgent gospel that results in a wide birth of performance, but leaves the captives captive because we subscribe to a fear that any effort automatically leads to legalism?

  2. Please don't forget.
    ESV: James Chapter 2
    14. What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?
    15. If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food,
    16. and one of you says to them, Go in peace, be warmed and filled, without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that?
    17. So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

    18. But someone will say, You have faith and I have works. Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
    19. You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!
    20. Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless?
    21. Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar?
    22. You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works;
    23. and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness—and he was called a friend of God.
    24. You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
    25. And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?
    26. For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

  3. I thoroughly enjoyed Sunday's preach - the "2 legs in one position analogy" (for anyone reading this comment who is not a part of Southside church, I can give you a link to this preach if you want).

    If you look at someone like Paul, we see a man who is totally changed by the revelation of God's grace, and who he is in Christ.
    We also see that he constantly prayed for others with extreme burden at times.
    And we also see that he operated in the supernatural very often; healing etc.

    But, who sat him down and told him about balancing his personal "soaking sessions" with walking faithfully in what God had called him to do? (just a question that crossed my mind at the time).

    You see, free will is not just something unbelievers have to might struggle with, even those who are strong believers and soaking radically in the truth of God's grace need to be REMINDED and ENCOURAGED to WALK in who they are, because we can receive a dynamic revelation regarding who we are in Christ and very easily not respond to it - What God did with Paul (in His sovereignty) was reveal His grace to Paul; What Paul did with that awesome truth was RESPOND to it (in his free will) - Galatians 2:2, the revelation was "set before him", and he responded to it.

    However, any healings, miracles, deliverances and even praying for restoration and revelation for a lost brother or sister etc, operates off the premise of being a Son, and knowing it.

    We have the joy of leading people (and ourselves) into a position of constantly receiving revelation (goodness...), and we also have the joy of encouraging each other to actually respond to that [personal] revelation.

    Legalism is when someone pushes sonship/revelation out of the way, and decides to tell people how to respond...a fine line between the two, but dangerous grounds nontheless.

    We are to bring people into a revelation of sonship...and when they get PERSONAL revelation, encourage them to walk in it...THEIR revelation.

  4. Howzit Mike,

    I don't think the author is opposed to believers getting out and doing stuff - he himself is constantly out ministering the Gospel, healing the sick and generally undoing Satan's work.

    For me the point is that when we do all these things with Jesus at the center of our hearts motives, even the "inconveniences" are not inconveniences anymore because of this great rest we have as a foundation.

    "If Christ did miraculous and wondrous, supernatural things...according to their clinging to and trusting" how can that be "sovereign(ly) and independent"?

    I think that the independence he is talking about is independence from self and rather, reliance on Him:
    "Jesus said that the signs would follow those who believe upon the Gospel. Believing upon the joyful message of what Christ has done is all that God really wants.
    "He (Jesus) does the miraculous sovereignly and independent of our striving, achieving or lack thereof.
    "but according to their clinging to and trusting in the message of the Gospel"

    The miracles are a result of Jesus finished work, not self dependence or obedience. (The obedience God requires from us is that we believe the Good News).

    " I delight in being an instrument and am fully comfortable with God's design that without me declaring the finished work of the cross, the multitudes will stay in bondage to the devil (be it demons, sickness, addictions, anger or religion)"
    I'm pretty sure the author feels the same way based on the testimonies Ive looked over.
    He is definitely NOT "anti-works of faith". He seems to me to simply be "pro - Jesus' Love being the center".... which I think we all are.

    Cool, chat soon

  5. Just another thought:

    “Many Christians are trumpeting the urgency of the hour and the demands of more activity to turn the demonic tide in this fallen world. Surely there is an urgency to save souls and be salt and light in our society. But the job is ultimately not ours to accomplish. Jesus FINISHED the work on the cross. He overcame the devil. His work was not just "one step" toward finishing the process. The problem is that most Christians don't fully believe the gospel. They believe their circumstances. When you stand on the truth that the work is FINISHED, that belief begins to manifest in your life, ministry and all around you.”

    This quote is from John Crowder who is very extreme, uninhibited and eccentric about his passion for Jesus. Although this passage may seem like he is promoting passivity, the fruit of his life and ministry says otherwise and is one that demonstrates the love and power of God radically. So, I think the point is that we need to dwell on Jesus and the FINISHED WORK OF THE CROSS meaning that we are not FINISHING it (“accomplishing” it as John Crowder says) but rather delighting, enjoying and BELIEVING it (the gospel) and the natural overflow or manifestation is signs and wonders, healings, salvations etc. If we BELIEVE the gospel we will MANIFEST it the same way we heard of Jesus’ saving grace… believed it… and manifested the results… righteousness, holiness, love (a changed man!) in our life. He’s not saying anything that opposes “works of faith” he is saying the focus is on Jesus.

    Keep them coming Andrew! Amped!!

  6. Hi,

    I wonderfully agree with your comment, Sean: Jesus has finished it all, every sin, every sickness, every disease and every demon and every need for performance, self-righteousness, need to impress God and behave in any peculiar way to be accepted by our Father.

    Clearly when Paul presented the glorious gospel of grace, it raised the question "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound?" When that question is asked, our hearts leap because we know that revelation has come to the questioner of the full extent of Jesus' being the propitiation for our sins.

    I am interested in researching this question: "Outside of smashing the law, is Paul (or other NT writers) ever misunderstood for promoting passivity?"

    I'd love anyone's research on this.

    Loving the dialogue,

  7. Hey mike

    The Question: Outside of smashing the law, is Paul (or other NT writers) ever misunderstood for promoting passivity?

    Are you implying that other Gospel preachers (the 2 mentioned in this blog) are being misunderstood for promoting passivity?

    The 2 guys mentioned here (Benjamin Dunn & John Crowder) are doing insane things driven by a love for God.. I have read alot of criticism about them (and heard), but the people who often point the fingers dont realise that they agree on the same things but we all just do it a little differently!

    The answer to your question for me is: Obviously Not! case closed, but if you are implying I dont see these guys promoting passivity at all purely by their infatuation with Jesus and his people....

    The focus isnt Do DO DO, its, DONE DONE DONE..

    Cheerz mate

  8. I fully agree that the primary focus has to be in the finished work of Jesus. In Math 6:28 when Jesus is asked "what must we do to be doing the works of God Jesus answered them, This is the work of God that you believe in him whom he has sent" This statement by Jesus certainly confirms the central theme of the Gospel. Note however that Jesus is addressing unbelievers and not born again believers who have the indwelling Holy Spirit.

    When Jesus is asked by Philip, [having already witnessed a spectacular display of the miraculous during the initial period of Jesus' ministry]"Lord show us the Father and that will be enough for us" Jesus responds by saying "Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father" He goes on to say that it is the Father in Him who is doing his work and later in vs 11 at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves. Jesus then proceeds to make probably the one statement that most Christians simply cannot believe...."I tell you the truth anyone who has faith in me [the central theme of the Gospel -emphasis added] WILL DO even greater things than these, because I am going to be with the Father. He even goes on to make an absolutely blow your hair back promise in vs 13 of that chapter that "I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask me for anything in my name and I will do it"

    The reason most Christians cannot say this is their testimoney [Doing greater things] is that they are just not doing it. They hear the word of God and just dont do it - and so deceive themselves. It is that simple.

    Can somebody please tell me what is so wrong with just hearing the word and doing it. Jesus said The words that I have spoken to you [vs63] are spirit and life. So as we hear /read the word of God and just do it we are walking in the Spirit. No irreverent smoking of the Holy Spliff is needed - no soaking for hours in gold dust. Just a heart sold out to God and obeying what the word says.... The Annointed One resides in the believer wanting to express Himself and bring Glory to the Father - If only mosy believers would just do what the word said He would!!!

  9. Mike Paul did write this near the end of His Life. He was not misunderstood. ( 2 Tim 4:1-8 )

    I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom:
    preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching.
    For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.
    As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

    For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come.
    I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
    Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that Day, and not only to me but also to all who have loved his appearing.

  10. Nicole's simple expression from the heart that may not be technically deep but here it goes:

    Though I don't understand much of what has been written I do know that through the goodness of God my "child-like" faith has been restored.

    The Spirit of God has watered the simple Gospel in my heart (which just got complicated) that there is such an overflow that it brings such peace and freedom from striving truly knowing that it is indeed DONE!

    I now approach strangers freely in shopping centers, schools, video stores etc telling them about the goodness of Jesus and how much he cares for them. I so desire to do "insane" things for Christ that is deeply driven by the love that He has for people and not by something that must be done.

    I still struggle with approaching certain situations. I would love to be able to walk into a garbage dump, and kiss the wounds of lepors, bringing beauty to their ugliness from the ash heap that they have been forced to live in. Ben and Stephanie have showed me that this is so possible because our bodies are simply vessels, owned by Christ.

    Oh Jesus, never let me get comfortable again! I only want it to be about You! I know I have only experienced a fraction of your love as I honestly think I would explode if I encountered it all.

  11. Sean, no one is arguing that it is already done. We all agree on that. But what is it that activates believers into becoming a doer of the word which is who we are supposed to be. Bud you and I know that the majority of Christians firstly havent heard the real Gospel, so that is a big problem. Then there are those who have heard the true Gospel. Is the general pattern of their lives doing greater things than our King did? I can tell you that in most cases the answer is no.

    Why do you believe that is the case? Most Christians simply do not follow the Golden rule of doing unto others as you would have them do unto you.

  12. I have a more a detailed response to Andrew's email at http://cthinktank.blogspot.com/2010/03/response-to-feasting-on-evidence.html

  13. Ben Dunn and Stephanie Dunn are personal friends of mine. Last year they ministered in 300 venues on multiplpe continants. They were at home a total of 10 days.
    They saw people come out of wheel chairs, blind eyes open, deaf ears open, and countless thousands encouraged and strenghtened. They are personal friends with Heidi Baker, Bill and Jeni Johnson, James Goll, Jason Westerfield, Randy Clark ..the list goes on and on...

    CS Lewis says "we live what we believe"...truly right livinng is essential..but it comes from right believing.

    I think Ben and John believe right and have a decade of reputation and ministry to show for it..

    Wisdom is proved right by her sons....

  14. Dear Anonymous,

    Randy Clark and Heidi Baker believe that believers can have generational curses. That is theologically incorrect. Having a friendship with people who have global reputations throughout certain ministry flows does not make one's doctrine theologically correct. Bill Johnson has been quoted saying that "believers are responsible for healing the sick and he is tired of hearing preachers hide their mistakes under the rug called the "Sovereignity of God" That is theologically correct.
    There can exist a vast chasm between the heart of a man and whether his doctrine lines up with what scripture says. I would always choose to live by making what the bible says my highest authority.

    Mighty works, signs and wonders are no guarentee that you know God either [Math 7:21 -23]

    I dont question whether Benn and Stephanie have good intentions. We as Christians are implored by Christ to do what he said we should and in doing so we build our house on the rock.[Math 7:24 - 27]

    Do the Dunns understand Grace? Probably better than most. Could they be theologically in error on some aspects of the Gospel? Possibly.

    As someone who knows the Dunns, what would their answer be to this question? If you as a spirit filled believer - madly dippy in love with Jesus prays for a cancer patient and they die? Who is responsible for not healing the sick person

    I look forward to your response.....

    Regards Kevin

  15. Kevin I have prayed for cancer patients, one very recently. One died, one was healed.
    Last week I did a memorial for a lady who died of a brain tumor. My mother has cancer..

    I know the answer to your question. God is not to blame, I am. So must get on with doing what he commanded me to do.

    My point about Benn was not about the theology or ministry that Heidi has, or Bill...it seemes that some are saying Benns teaching will make you passive....you missed the point.Benn is not passive! Last week he was on RAW TV preaching the gospel to unsaved wrestlers..main guest artist! is that bad coz no-one got healed?

    By the way i do soak, and get gold dust, sometimes while soaking, seems God does not mind the soaking.

    On Sunday i prayed for a guy with a broken toe, black and blue foot. Instantly healed, all pain swelling and bruising gone.

    A month ago a friend of mine preached the gospel at a funeral, and dozens of pepople were saved and healed. We have started a church with the remanants. This was 1 week after being with Benn.

    When Benn was here he prayed for two people who had depresion and both were healed and are off their medication...seems to me God is happy. Praise God!..

    you know what i hear sometimes among driven preaching on healing.

    clang clang bang bang..

    It's the sound of the gong, the cymbol...NO LOVE...

    We need to be careful that in all our constant ctitisism of grace theology, and those who soak, and believe God is happy, that we are not isolating ourselves from those who could be our best friends and closes partners in the Gospel and the advancing of the kingdom.

    I pray for increase for you brother. For more of who you are to be released, for more signs and wonders and healings to flow from you. I pray every sick person be healed, and every person you encounter, feel deeply loved.

  16. Hi There...


    You wrote...

    "The writer of the above article makes the Gospel out to be a “happy message”- nowhere in scripture is the good news likened to some kiddies programme like the Teletubbies"

    That writer is Ben Dunn...He has seen, cripples come out of wheelchairs, blind eyes opening, thousands saved, traveled to garbage dumps of the world bringing freedom to thousands there, preached in hundreds of churches, seen all sorts of creative miracles and has just recently planted a church in Santa Cruz, CA that is exploding...i guess his happy "Teletubby like" gospel message is working for him...

    I have personally met Ben...and after being with him i don't have this huge desire to go out and lay hands on someone...all i wanted was a greater understanding of grace and deeper intimacy with Dad...

    ...and from that, i will bear EVERY good work destined for me...

  17. [to be read in 2 parts] Hi brother,

    I pray that your mom would be healed in the name of Jesus.

    Good answer to the healing question.

    I agree with you that Grace shouldn't make you passive -quite the opposite in fact. The extravagant outpouring of the love of God through His son Jesus is what Grace is about. Salvation, deliverence, healing and every spiritual blessing "all in one package".

    The bible says that God has elevated his word above His name[Ps138:1 NIV] - in other words He places significant importance in it to the extent that it holds the entire world together by its power.[Heb 1:3] For this reason and many others I place great importance in the ultimate authority of scripture and not in the doctrines nor the traditions of men which nullifies the word of God. It is through the knowledge of the truth of the Gospel that people are really set free.

    I am not knocking Grace - I am saved because of it. I am not knocking spiritual experiences - I have them too - anyone who knows me will tell you that. What I am saying is that I question when people persue spiritual experience at the expense of truth - that's all. I do question some of John Crowder's and Ben's references to "Holy Spliff" as irreverent, but that is my opinion.

    This is not about driven preaching on healing this is about believers understanding their intimate union with God and simply ruling and reigning in this world the way our King did. How can we walk past the mangled body of the cripple when we are the solution to his needs? How can we refuse the beggar when our Dad owns the cattle on a thousand hills? How can we leave the bipolar woman in bondage when at just the sound of our voice the spirit of depression could flee? How much deeper intimacy with God do I need when I have Him living in me and I in Him? What greater understanding do I need if I know these simple things?

    contd....in part 2

  18. [contd...]

    My love response is easy because I lack for nothing - my Dad took care of that when I believed in His Son. The same Son who said "if you love me then obey my commandments"
    Jesus said "preach the Gospel, heal the sick, raise the dead, cast out devils and cleanse the leper" so criticise me for obedience. I never heard one liberated person complain about their freedom.
    Man I have seen some pain and tears when the Christian couldn't do a thing and the oppressed prisoner of war becomes Satan's latest victim, but nobody ever wants to discuss that. How does your greater understanding of Grace and deeper intimacy with Dad explain the "failure" without believers taking responsibility for what God has commanded them to do?

    You may think I am a resounding gong or a clashing cymbol, but you clearly do not know me.

    I dont need increase brother, the fullness of the deity lives in me. I dont need more of who I am to be released, I need more of me to die and I suggest you do the same!

    Signs and wonders, healings and miracles will follow me because I am a believer who trusts that God's promises are yes and amen.

    The planet is littered with massive monuments to religion that give our King a bad name. Jesus likened spiritual maturity /growing up ["My meat"] to doing the will of His Father and maybe that should be our desire too.
    If Ben's work produces radical mature believers then awesome.

    I am genuinely pleased that your encounter with Ben Dunn has had the impact on you that it has. As for me.......

    I have personally met with Jesus....and after he came to live in me, I had this huge desire to go out and lay hands on the sick, preach the Gospel and raise the dead because Jesus told me He would never leave me.

    The honest question I would ask you is this.... after being with Ben Dunn, "as a believer, when you find out your best friend's son is dying of cancer, would you have a huge desire to set the boy free or would you be more concerned with a greater understanding of Grace and a deeper intimacy with God?

    I wonder what the boy staring at death would want?

    Jesus would set him free without a second thought and I would want to do the same. If that is clang clang bang bang then let the music play with every good work I do in His name.

    PS....What's with the anonymity?

  19. Kevin..

    Everything you say is true..

    Still dont understand why you have to knock down, everyone else differant to you...

    Heidi and Randy...do miracles but then you attack theology..curses.

    Ben and John you embrace neither theology or practice.

    One december Randy planted 1000 churches in Russia! He has seen thousands of healings world wide.
    Heidi planted 9000 churches, hondreds of thousands saved. More healings thatn you can imagine. Her motive love.

    You attack Ben and John for Holy Spirit ministry.

    You speak against soaking. Against Encounters...

    Read your blog post and your comments about everyone else.

    Seems to me that anyone who does not have your theology, exact. And do all your saying they sould, you dissaprove of.

    By the way i see you have 6 followers on your blog...

    i believe love is our motivatior, and not responsibility/assignment.

    You seem to leave no room for differances, no grace for anything but what you see.

    I know you lost a son, many have had tragedy, and stared loved ones in the eyes.

    You know Kevin, you can do "every good work", in a way that loves others, and makes them also want to do it....

    Personally based on your assumptions and comments, and the disaproval i can clearly see in your words..i'm tempted to move away from what you are preaching.

    If doing the works of Jesus means I have to be so disaproving of so many other things..I dont want to be part of that.

    Why not say..praise God for Ben, and John, and Bill, and Heidi..(and me)..and praise God for the millions changed, healed and saved through theor lives.
    Praise God for the joy, freedom and love they bring to the body.

    You say you dont need increase...will Paul writes to the thessalonian church and commends them for growing in love.

    I still pray for increase for you bro..more miracles to flow out you, more revalation, more power to flow..that you would be the very embodiment of "those who believe will do greater".
    I pray your heart for healing and doing every good work would increase, and that you would see entire hospitals emptied, and million more deaf ears opened.

    I hate generational curses...but i would go see Heidi any day..i will learn from her.
    Her book "compelled by love" is awesome...

    Ben will be with her for a week in June...they will feed 5000 a day, preach the gospel and see thousands healed and saved...while we sit here, see the odd miracle and critisize their theology and practive...there is something wrong with that, me thinks!

  20. Sorry to interject here.. I agree with you 100% Kevin… Who seriously thinks setting people free is wrong?? We all agree with that mate.. My son had a sentence of death over his life over a year ago and he was healed by the laying on of our hands (that’s just one of many testimonies)… I do not want to be mistaken with someone who doesn’t believe in seeing people healed and just overflowing into others lives. Heck No, but the enemy IS defeated and He will try at anything to make you feel he is NOT defeated – how do we come to know He is defeated?… hear and belive the Gospel! To me, I can see my son healed, but he can still remain a captive because He doesn’t believe in the Finished work of the cross.. Something I have realized is that just because people are healed of a physical ailment doesn’t mean they are not captives anymore... (Please don’t hear what I’m not saying) The war is in our minds, we need to preach the Gospel of His grace (Christ crucified and finished work) OVER AND OVER AND OVER not just for 3 months and then “Move on”, because it’s a FOUNDATION that we will believe not just an Encounter or moment or great thought. Ultimately what we believe we will manifest. The argument isn’t.. I am all works and you are all faith… Its works OF Faith. I am amped for more of God, whatever He wants to do.. Im not going to limit myself because of insecurities or fear of falling off the table (Seriously what is that) and Im also not going to criticize others who are doing amazing things and are on our team… Bring on the Drunken joy that keeps me Heavenly minded and full of Love for others and peaceful in the storms! We need to loosen up, and “Seriously” have FUN.. Im amped for more HOLY Locomotion’s in our meetings.. I don’t care if its Hype or not, as long as we are breaking religious mindsets by letting ourselves EXPRESS our FREEEEEEDOM..

    Come on now!

    Much love

  21. Dear Ann Onymous

    Thanks for your comments.

    Bud, why dont you ask the people who minister the Good News with me as to whether I do it out of love or performance. They know and so do those who are the recipients of God's grace that is administered through me.

    When Jesus came proclaiming the Good News, it was offensive to many. You see, the Gospel requires the believer to die and for Christ to rule and reign in Him. Most Christians never do that and as a result live lives empty of partaking in the Divine nature.

    You say I knock down everyone different to me. By that I take it you refer to doctrine.
    Why may I ask did Paul say there is no other Gospel. Why does Jesus place so much emphasis on His words? You see Ann, somebody's right and somebody's wrong. There can't be two Gospels [Gal 1:7] or we are headed into moral relativism. History shows that thousands of cults were started for that very reason. Now before you accuse me again, I am not saying that Heidi,Randy, Ben and John are running cults all I am saying is lets make the word our highest authority.

    By the way, I have never said I dont thank God for our brothers and sister mentioned above. I have been to the Iris foundation and heard many of their testimonies. Does this mean I have to agree with what they preach or teach? Why do you place such pressure on me to just accept everything they say?I have read their books, listened to their sermons and teachings. Does that mean I have to embrace everything they believe because of what they do. Surely you dont prescribe that to everyone? Using your thinking,I can introduce you to men and woman of God whose lives are one supernatural, miraculous adventure, but here's the thing - they would not embrace some of Hiedi's nor John's doctrinal perspectives either. According to you, we should just embrace what they believe. What a mess this will be for the church?

    Am I supposed to pray? should I soak first? is it my responsibility? Should I wait for a special leading? Is is God's fault? Did he die becuase there is sin in my life? Should I lick his head? Should I lay hands? Am I cursed?

    I think you get the picture.....

    Let me ask you this... Does God give us room to mess with one letter or dot or tittle of His word? We know the answer [I hope]. Then neither will I. Yet you make me out to be lacking in Grace because I choose to do what my Father says. Well I suppose you believe God lacks Grace then too.

    Ann, now watch my lips....I am stoked that Ben and Heidi will be touching the lives of thousands this year - God knows the workers are few and for those who know me, I rejoice for every life changing moment.

    You unfortunately mistake my passion for the word of God as a lack of Grace for others and a lacking in love. How far out does something have to be before it begins costing people their lives? Would you be prepared to risk it?

    The bible says my people perish for lack of knowledge. Lets not make our ignorance of the word the reason for people perishing.

    Why Ann, may I ask, is it that you never address any of the scriptural references I make? Is there no relvance to them in this discussion or does it all boil down to opinion? Bud, if I am in error, then please show me so that I can make the necessary changes.

    By the way for someone who seems to know me, why the secrecy around your identity. I would love to pray for you too, but not quite sure what to say /pray....

    Here's a suggestion, why dont we meet and discuss this with Bibles open and some coffee in hand?

  22. Outside of smashing the law, is Paul (or other NT writers) ever misunderstood for ENFORCING ACTION?
    ...perhaps the twin question to think about when trying to answer the previous question earlier in this thread of comments...

  23. Sean,

    Thanks for your comments.

    You are 100% right...what we believe will manifest. That's why I place such importance on what the word says. Given the choice, I would rather people hear Christ preached than not - even Paul said the same thing. Yet he also placed emphasis on there being only one Gospel.

    I have absolutely no issue with being drunk in the Holy Spirit, falling down flat on my face and laughing myself silly...I do that regularly - never at the expense of truth.
    Thats all I am trying to say bud.

    Sean, maybe I have a different view to most...when error in doctrine is the cause of your only son dying,you kinda give it priority. I wont apologise for that. When Jesus told the rich young ruler to sell everything he had, it offended him because he was being asked to give up what brought him great pleasure. I wont compromise truth no matter how much joy and pleasure or freedom I experience in my walk with God.

    Remember, it is truth that sets you free not experiences. Awesome spiritual experiences come because the truth of the Good News has set you free. I think we agree on that.

    Bud, I think the biggest thing most Christians struggle with is the issue of their God given responsibility to their fellow man. I have yet to have one person through a sound exegesis of scripture disprove that. This is not just about healing, it covers every aspect of human life. Through the church, the manifold wisdom of God is being made known. It has to be truth that has ultimately activated Heidi, Randy, Ben and John and not a spiritual soaking /experience. Paul probably had one of the most radical encounters with God of all time. Yet he doesn't prescribe a Damascus road experience for every believer to be saved.

    Under the influence of the Holy Spirit he pens the bulk of the New Testament which has become the basis of what we believe today.In his letter to the Romans in the 16th verse of the first chapter he says "For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of GOD for salvation to everyone who believes"

    "Soteria [gk] to everyone who believes"- what a thing!
    For 15 years I never knew what that meant because it wasnt taught or preached and neither had I given the Holy Spirit opportunity to lead and guide me into all truth. Whether it is with Holy Locomotion or without the truth must be preached so that ordinary brothers like you and me will never have to face the sight we faced in September 2008

    Surely that is worth fighting for?

    Regards Kev

  24. The Gospel is the declaration of freedom from all sin, sickness, disease, depression and death and it is the voice of the Lord that speaks to the darkness and turns it into light.

    To know the Gospel as anything less than this is tragic. Unless it is known and drunk down in its entirety, its benefits will never be realized.

    Benn Dunn

  25. Part 1
    here are some of your quotes from your blogg:

    The writer of the above article makes the Gospel out to be a “happy message”- nowhere in scripture is the good news likened to some kiddies programme like the Teletubbies

    Q: How who said anyting about teletubbies? I think John might find your comments here a bit wierd. I do!

    Luke 24:52:Jeremiah 15:16:Romans 14:17:

    The gospel produces joy. Yes sometimes when i see the gosepl i feel like a teletubby on steriods! i wanna sing, dance, jump, and run out and tell the world how great the gospel is.

    Does our responsibility cancell joy?Cant we have both.

    your quote:
    The miraculous becomes effortless, signs and wonders become a lifestyle and our lives begin to resemble our victorious King when he graced this earth as the Son of Man. Now that is good news that should make you very happy.

    q: OK so now happy is ok?

  26. Part 2

    your quote:
    My experience however, has shown that miracles don’t just follow those who simply put their faith and trust in the Gospel

    Gal 3
    2Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?
    Miracles flowed from believing what they heard, the Gospel.(must be right gospel)

    your quote
    I wonder if the writer would still be saying this staring at the lifeless body of his 8 year old son in a small white wooden box?

    I am sad for your loss 18 months ago...but i think you are letting your tragedy mould you, which can be good, but it can be bad if the burden to heal others becomes entirly yours. A burden you might overextend to others.

    You write that we need to avoid what happened in September 2008. Well if you take your responsibility serious, you can go down the road to Albert Luthuli, every day, and heal the cancer patients there. Sparing others the trauma, after all its our responsibility.
    This is the only logical end of this teaching.

    you write
    We spend hours fixated on all forms of “spiritual manifestations” which do precious little to setting captives free and advancing God’s Kingdom

    how can spending time with Him, ever really be a bad thing. I believe regular encounters and saoking and spiritual manifestations, can strenghten and prepare us from many things in life..including advancing His kingdom. Mary/Marthy is a classic example. I agree all we need is the right gosple, but you know we can be with Him, just to be with eachother. It's called realtionship. Now dont go "it's not all about saoking", im not saying that, im saying that intimacy, waiting, experiace in and with Him, can aid building the kingdom. I suspect you spent time also, intimacy with Him. Jesus did with the father. Often, and who has been more effective than Him?

  27. Part 3
    You say further:
    I never saw Jesus once heal a soul with gold dust or precious stones – just his hands or his words.
    No where in scripture is the Kingdom of God likened to some sailor’s drunken experience that produces in its wake signs and wonders? The defining moment of the disciples receiving the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost had the “appearance of drunkenness” to Jews from every nation under heaven, but Peter quickly corrects this in Acts 2:15 saying “these men are not drunk as you suppose”.

    1) Peter did not bring a correction but an explination. They reason they appered drunk, was because they appeared drunk. He did not correct as you state but rather, explain.
    2) signs and wonders were often part of the disciples ministry. Many would come and see, and many placed faith when signs wonders and miracles accompanied the gospel. I agree the gospel is the thing. But to say "No where in scripture is the Kingdom of God likened to some sailor’s drunken experience that produces in its wake signs and wonders? "

    That is exactly what happened!
    Acts 2:22:
    : we see signs wonders and miracles attesting the message!
    Acts 4:30:
    while you stretch out your hand to heal, and signs and wonders are performed through the name of your holy servant Jesus

    : here we see healing, and signs and wonders. They were all part and parcel of the gospel being presented.

    Even Jesus said, if you dont believe, then believe based on what i do.

    Wherever there are signs, God approves. Where do signs come from..God. If they are there and you dont like them..well God made them, so you dont agree then, with something God himself released.

    you say:
    Men and woman so inebriated in the Spirit that they couldn’t help liberate themselves from the floor let alone a cripple in a wheelchair. The “drunken analogy” has become the spiritual reality and priority.

    hmmm nasty! as one who does this i feel your condemnation and disaproval!
    Everything has a place, you say that you fall down and laugh your head off etc. I caould say, "your so busy laughing your head off, how does that advance the kingdom, you should be out there healing a young boy who is dying and staring you in the eyes loking for help"...

    I have a video of Ben preaching drunk, and a guy gets out of a wheelchair and walk for the first time in His life, just from hearing the Gospel! he was also covered in Gold dust!
    How do you know these drunkards are not doing more miracles than you? Some are!
    since when did drunken=ineffective?
    Some of the best miracles ive seen and done, were by drunk in the spirit people. People by the way who know the prescious truth of being indwelt. We see the disciples eating with Jesus...how terrible, they shuold have been out there obeying His caommands to heal the sick and deliver etc.

    Amen brother....and it all starts and ends with the gosepl. The gosple strenghtens us, empowers us, motivates us and releases us. The motive love. Not fear, not assignment, not past failure or traged, not the loss of a loved one. Love. otherwise clang clang.

    The entire sozo of the gosepl is His goal.
    Complete wholeness, which includes healing, but only a part of it.

  28. Hi anonymous,

    I love your enthusiasm and your perspective in this last comment, Here's a recent revelation i have received, and i think you will actually enjoy it:

    You said, "...it is the voice of the Lord that speaks to the darkness and turns it into light."
    How's this for an awesome truth, in Hebrews 1:1 we see the author say, "Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets...", this tells me that in the old covenant God was constantly dealing with issues on an on-going basis ("...in MANY TIMES and in many ways..."), however, he then says, "...but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son...".
    Here we see a work complete - "...in these last days He HAS SPOKEN...".

    In these last days He does not overcome darkness as an on-going process, He has already done so, WE access that victory and advance it, AWESOME HEY.

  29. John Crowder...

    A kid the other day just told me he got whacked up on the Most High at one of our meetings, then went to Wal-Mart and pulled a paralyzed lady out of a wheelchair then led 34 people to the Lord off the back of it. Not sure if the mixed fruit there would be the healing of paralysis or the 34 saved souls! But we’re not boasting in any of this stuff. We boast in the finished works of Jesus, and that’s why we see this stuff happen. We are resting from our labors, losing ourselves in the bliss of God and fruit happens.

  30. Me and my wife were discussing this yesterday....

    Is it biblically correct for believers to take full responsibility when a sick person is not healed?

    We all agree that the source of sin and sickness is Satan and his demonic crew. But surely we also blame him for the lack of revelation that has kept the "revealed mystery" of Christ hidden for thousands of years from the majority of believers. Surely we blame Satan for false doctrines that have been taught in the church undermining the gospel that has lead us to be ineffective in dealing with the enemy and walking in truth. Surely he has blinded our eyes up till now?

    Haven't there been religious spirits and spirits of witchcraft at work in the body through the ages? They have been having a ball trying to derail us and "talk the talk"... the self-righteous talk that I thank Jesus I am now starting to see as I look with spiritual eyes once again and refuse to have the religious-self-righteous wool pulled over them again because the SPIRIT in me is not witnessing with THAT!!! YAAAAY!!

    Why have we left Satan out of the equation and handed this responsibility over to believers... ARE WE NOT BEING TRICKED BY HIM ONCE AGAIN?

    (Shame poor little Sheepie are being blamed for being taught wrong!!)

    This has been preached outrightly to believers with no question. Believers are left after praying for a sick person who is not healed wrestling with why what "he did" did not work. Is that believer meant to carry that experience around with him and use it as "anger fuel" to take on the enemy for the next 50 years of their life? At what point do you let "your responsibility" go and then fully embrace your Father's love and find healing. I find the two hard to put together.

    Aren't we putting heavies on people?? Are we aloud to do that??? The gospel is one of freedom and if the opposite is happening then something must be wrong with that!
    Honestly, the love of God compels us to post these thoughts..

    Much Love

  31. Troy your right bro.. i do love that

    "In these last days He does not overcome darkness as an on-going process, He has already done so, WE access that victory and advance it, AWESOME HEY..." I schmaak it!

    so really the voice speaks into the darkness, and that voice is US !

    our voice says what?
    "...but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son...".

    We proclaim christ, and all he has done (spoken) for us!

    Thanks for that...we never have to fight, only assurt His victory!

  32. Dear An,

    What is very clear is we both believe in Grace and that nothing will ever be accomplished by our striving.
    You like the way Benn and John do things - I dont necessarily. We both like the results of people being set free in the name of Jesus.
    You dont like "feeling pressurised" into looking after the needs of mankind, I have no problem with just doing what the word says and I take a strong position on believer's responsibility to mankind, you agree in principle but not as "strongly".

    You believe that "spiritual drunkenness" is biblical [Acts 2 reference] I dont. We both believe in being filled by the Holy Spirit and manifesting who He is as outlined in scripture. You believe in other manifestations of the Holy Spirit which I believe are not in scripture.

    We both love spending time with Dad.

    We both celebrate in every victory against the kingdom of darkness.

    Actually I think what we believe is closer than you probably think.

    Losing Joel was huge but it was understanding the Gospel that moulded me. You too have been moulded by it.

    You press on doing what you are doing brother. I have some battles to fight and my daughter wants to show me her hand stands.

    Be blessed.



  33. A passive Gospel?

    John & team just returned from India where we saw an amazing 100,000 decisions for Christ! This vast outpouring of salvations was accompanied by phenomenal miracles - the blind saw, the deaf heard and the lame walked. On the last night of the crusades, the team was attacked by a mob of angry Hindus. We also faced opposition from police as miracles began breaking out impromptu in the streets, but the Kingdom prevailed!


  34. you can watch the video of Indian and read more at

  35. Hi It's miss Ann again.

    Kevin my bro, how can you say you dont believe in signs?

    Check these scriptures.

    Acts 2:19:
    And I will show wonders in the heavens above and signs on the earth below, blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke;
    Acts 2:22:
    "Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know –
    Acts 2:43:
    And awe(Or fear) came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were being done through the apostles.
    Acts 4:30:
    while you stretch out your hand to heal, and signs and wonders are performed through the name of your holy servant Jesus."

    Acts 5:12:
    Now many signs and wonders were regularly done among the people by the hands of the apostles.
    Acts 6:8:
    And Stephen, full of grace and power, was doing great wonders and signs among the people.
    Acts 8:6:
    And the crowds with one accord paid attention to what was being said by Philip when they heard him and saw the signs that he did.
    Acts 8:13:
    Even Simon himself believed, and after being baptized he continued with Philip. And seeing signs and great miracles(Greek works of power) performed, he was amazed.
    Acts 14:3:
    So they remained for a long time, speaking boldly for the Lord, who bore witness to the word of his grace, granting signs and wonders to be done by their hands.
    Note graced, as opposed to healing which is as exercised right for believers. Signs are a GRACE.
    Acts 15:12:
    And all the assembly fell silent, and they listened to Barnabas and Paul as they related what signs and wonders God had done through them among the Gentiles.
    Romans 15:19:
    by the power of signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God - so that from Jerusalem and all the way around to Illyricum I have fulfilled the ministry of the gospel of Christ;
    II Corinthians 12:12:
    The signs of a true apostle were performed among you with utmost patience, with signs and wonders and mighty works. INTERESTING ONE..SIGNS ARE A SIGN OF AN APOSTLE!

    Hebrews 2:4:
    while God also bore witness by signs and wonders and various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.


    Acts 19:11:
    And God was doing extraordinary miracles by the hands of Paul,
    Hebrews 2:4:
    while God also bore witness by signs and wonders and various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.


    signs are clearly biblical!

  36. What i would like to ask about signs is this:

    You dont believe in signs..ok.

    So here's where i get thinking.

    So on Sunday night while Ben was preaching the gospel, a diomond dropped on him.
    My wife was worshipping to a cd and a feather dropped on her.
    A couple were praying in bed and got covred in Gold dust.
    Ben was preaching about Rom 6 , crucified with christ, and a guy got healed, walked for first time ever, covered in gold dust.
    I watched oil run from Joshua Mills hand.
    I saw Bill Johnson catch a feather while preaching.
    lots of other things I could go on for houres..

    If they are not of God. They must be of Satan, and we are all deluded!

    Or do you have another theory?

  37. What was the main purpose of this post? It wasn't to discuss Benjamin Dunn and John Crowder's theology. It wasn't to discuss how much "work" they do. It was posted to show the awesomeness of the gospel, the finished work of the cross. Benjamin Dunn just happened to write it (as a matter of fact, some guys had to ask who the original author was).

    The original question raised was "Could we be in danger of presenting a self-indulgent gospel…? (I know the question was longer, but this is what it boils down to.)

    Benjamin Dunn and John Crowder might preach some stuff that's "out there" for some, but so does Rob Rufus, Andrew Wommack and Joseph Prince. Benjamin Dunn and John Crowder might believe some stuff that other grace preacher's don't believe, like (walking with little or no sin and immortality). On the walking with little or no sin part read Ryan Rufus's book "Do Christians have a sinful nature", he comes pretty close to saying the same thing; that we always have a way out of temptation. Immortality? Well let’s say, none of us are 120 years old yet, so let’s wait till we get there. Smoking the holy spiffy? C’mon, if you don’t like it, don’t do it. Irreverent? Again, Rob Rufus, Andrew Wommack and Joseph Prince have been accused of the same thing, like, how can they say a Holy God won’t judge a believers sin?

    As i said, the main issue with the post was this thing of passivity. Again I say, Rob Rufus, Andrew Wommack and Joseph Prince have been accused of the same thing...that "their" gospel message will cause people to become passive and lazy (and/or cause people to go out and sin)…

    Let’s not take the focus off that question because that in essence is what the gospel of grace has been accused of. Grace preachers might differ on “side issues” but they don’t differ on this fundamental, that when grace is preached properly (and ongoingly) the reaction is not passivity but holy action.

  38. Brother Ann,

    You have seriously misunderstoond me and like I said before, I beleive we are closer in our thinking than you seem to convey. I trust you don't expect me to just embrace any teaching / doctrine based on the evidence of signs [which as we know are really for the unbeliever.]

    I am certain that as long as Benn, John , you ["anonymous" - people who hide in darkness don't have a revelation of the light - just kidding, lol ;-)] and I anchor ourselves in Jesus and the truth of the word then we shall all see signs and wonders as the prophet Joel prophesied.

    In the process, the Kingdom of God will be advanced and hell emptied. Regards Kevin

    P.S. The offer for coffee is still open.

  39. Hi Kevin.

    There are different anonymous people here, as i have not posted all the anonymous comments.

    As i said earlier. "Let’s not take the focus off that question ("Could we be in danger of presenting a self-indulgent gospel…?) because that in essence is what the gospel of grace has been accused of. Grace preachers might differ on “side issues” but they don’t differ on this fundamental, that when grace is preached properly (and ongoingly) the reaction is not passivity but holy action."

    The one in darkness (Just kidding, LOL ;-)

  40. "“Man has a natural aversion to grace. A persistent turning away from grace is demonstrated biblically and historically….

    The unconditional free grace of God that brings us to the cross of Christ for all and any merit before God keeps us humble, which allows us to experience more grace: “But He gives more grace. Therefore He says: ‘God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble’ James 4:6.

    The slave woman of legalism and her son will always persecute the free woman of grace and her son Gal. 4:29. The two cannot co-exist or mix. Paul’s advice is to throw out the slave woman and her son Gal. 4:30.

    Watch carefully for the natural drift away from grace. Don’t try to compromise with legalism or anything that threatens the absolute free nature of grace.

    Rather, “Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage”"

  41. Hey,

    Who is coming to Curry Blake when he is here next month?

    He is widely regarded as one of the world's leading experts on divine healing. He loves Grace and has an awesome ability to spur believers into walking like Jesus with nothing other than a simple understanding of the Goodness of God, who we are in Christ and believing the word of God.

    Let me know if anyone is interested?



  42. I had this thought this morning...

    seems to me some want to replace the law with

    "you must walk as Jesus did, healing all for He commanded it"

    when we place "must" on people instead of "can" or "you will", it's the law again.

    how many times does the word responsibility accur in the bible? do a word search, and see!?

  43. Take the "have to's" off Gods people and the "want to's" will rise up...it might take a while but it will surely happen...