Friday, January 13, 2012

Before the Foundation!!! (One)

Jesus was not the victim of God's wrath ("wrath" as is traditionally understood as being anger) on your behalf. It was not wrath that was poured out on the Cross; it was love. God doesn't have grace towards you because He gave Jesus a whipping in your place. God has grace towards you because that is who He is--He is Mr. Grace. The Cross is not the prerequisite for God's forgiveness of the world; it is the expression of God's forgiveness of the world.

Q: How was sin dealt with then? 
Blood had to be spilled to instate a new covenant and cover the sins of the world, right?

The fulfilling of the Shadow (the law) served as evidence for all to SEE that He was the one . The Old Testament lamb blood that covered the sin of the worshipper for a year was for the sake/benefit of the conscience of the Offerer - (It was not for the sake/benefit of the offering - the Lamb). It cleansed the worshipper’s conscience towards God (heb 10). This was necessary because of our fallen thinking ie: imagining that that God was against us and not for us.

Paul puts it like this:
Col 1:19 For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell,
Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things (Note: "all things to Himself" - not "Himself to all things" – this was already a reality from God’s side), whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross (the reality of the Lambs blood being shed before the foundation of the world Rev 13)
Col 1:21 And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind/imagination (It was our thinking that needed to change to line up with the already existing reality of Gods opinion of us), doing evil deeds, 

Blood being spilled for the remission of sin was a shadow that was fulfilled in Jesus so his people could see and believe that He was the Messiah. God, however, never at any stage left His Sabbath rest since creation – even with the event of the Fall and until this day (Heb 4:3). Gods view of us never changed from “chilled" to "Need to redeem these guys", to "chilled" again. He never left Perfect Rest since pre fall. Christ’s life was not to change Gods view of man but mans view of God. He always had redemption on his heart towards us (Gen 3:21). He loves us with an everlasting love – How awesome is He!!!

Sin was an issue to us because of a perverted view of God from mankinds point of view. The cross reveals that sin can never separate God from us. Whilst we were sinners He died for the World that we would know the Truth about Him, about His agape (unconditional Love) opinion of us.

Q: How was sin dealt with? 
It was dealt with in the body of Christ exactly according to the Shadow (old testament regulations) so that we would believe that its been dealt with – But all along God proves to be the everlasting Lamb who is the beginning and the End. He was the lamb who carried the sin of the world since before creation. 

2000 years ago was merely the manifestation of that fact:
1Pe 1:20  He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you 

Q: “Blood had to be spilled to instate a new covenant and cover the sins of the world, right?” – Yes, exactly according to the Shadow so that we could see and believe the reality of our forgiveness. 

Q: So when were we ever "sinners"?
A: sinner is someone who is fallen and flawed due to a "sinful nature".
So if we were never really separated from God, how could we ever have had a sinful nature, as the Bible clearly teaches?

Sin opened humanity up to abuse from the one who comes to kill, steal, and destroy. So Jesus came in a body to become sin and so that the Father working with the Son could destroy sin and its child death in the body of Jesus. The Father's Wrath is His love in action, Love that will fight to death to free His children. It is not anger as we have often been taught.
I believe that because one died for all that all died with him because we were all IN Christ when Christ was crucified. 
So, for example, when Paul states that His Old Man was Crucified WITH Christ, I believe that that happened when Christ was crucified - and NOT only when Paul believed it. 
So when Christ died - ALL Died together with him. It was then that the Old man (the Adamic propensity to believe a lie about the Nature of Father) was circumcised (Col 2) and the Lamb removed the sin of the world. This reality however was already an eternally sealed deal before time began. 

"Do Christians have a sinful nature?" as the book title asks, is a more accurate question phrased as "Does Humanity have a sinful nature?" when one considers what Jesus accomplished "once for ALL".  The lie that stirs up sinful behavior says that when you look in a mirror you see someone not in the image and likeness of God looking back at you. But scripture tells us that when we behold Him as in a mirror we are transformed by increasing glory (2 Cor 3) 
(Ie, when we look at ourselves in a mirror, we see Jesus... His image and likeness (Gen 1:26). 

To call unbelievers sinners is to deny their original identity that Jesus came to reveal. “And you--being dead in the trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh--He made alive together with him, having forgiven you all the trespasses, (col 2:13)” – this happened when He was Crucified, and that happened before the foundation of the world.

We were sinners in our own imaginations (Greek: dianoia) (Col 1:21) by denying our original identity. This is to be tempted and go along with the flesh. (the term “sinful nature” is a myth created by bad translating and religious reformed theology) 
Man, in his original identity as an image barer of God is NOT inherently evil. The state of “sinnerhood” was undone by the Lamb of God even before mankind knew what was going down:
Rom 5:18  Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men. 
Rom 5:19  For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience (before creation) the many will be made righteous.

Mankinds rightstanding with Father is evidenced by his Love in coming to paint a clearer picture of who we really are, that we could “change our minds and believe the good news” as Jesus put it.

Am I saying that because all are in right-standing with Father (Righteous), that all are saved? - No, I believe that some will/have rejected the Good News and therefore not experienced the Zoe life of God (Salvation by definition is not a heaven/hell issue, its a God's-life-though-yours issue.) 
This happens by trust (faith)...... "the righteous will live by trust (faith)", BUT, if those in rightstanding (the righteous) are not persuaded (ie: dont trust), then they wont live as He intended. They wont experience the life of union with Him.
"When Christ who is your Life appears, you also will appear with Him in glory" (Col3)



  1. Here's a thought to add in to the discussion:

    Jesus said in John 17:3 that eternal life simply means to know the Father and the Son.
    To change our minds view of God and ourselves, to match our thoughts with his - have His mind, to know the truth of our identity, Jesus tells three stories to try to help us to see ourselves and God differently (correctly). And in each one of the parables (Luke 15:1-) the object representing man never ever lost its original value - even though they were lost or unaware of the reality. The owner of the lost object never lost ownership/relationship with it or changed his original affection towards the lost object.The son never lost any status in his Fathers heart, but he certainly was convinced that he had (based on his religious acts of penance that he planned!). When he returns home and begins his speech, the Father decides to prove his personal acceptance by throwing a feast using the greatly valued fatted Calf so the son could eradicate all doubt and Change his mind about his fathers opinion of him. Jews knew very well the value of a fatted calf according to the Law offering system. It was the very best you could offer to God....

    Now, here's the socket blower: Father gives US His Fatted Calf.... His most valuable Sacrifice... NOT in order to make us acceptable to Him, but to prove to our doubting self-opinions that we already are.

    Since God is the creator of time and not constrained by it as we are - He is the beginning AND the End. We cannot fathom that we were forgiven before we ever sinned, that we died in Christ before we were ever physically born because we "naturally" think within timeframes. But what about us beginning to see ourselves "super-naturally" in Him, in whom we move and live and have our being as scripture declares the reality to be. Our being is from start to end in The Eternal Father. "Naturally", I cannot comprehend that I was found before I was lost - it makes no sense!!!.... "naturally" - but he helps me/us to set (firm) our minds on supernatural realities.

    Christ (the Lamb, the Scape Goat, the Dove, the Fatted Calf....) was crucified before the foundation of the world, and was manifested as such 2000 years ago to prove to us that "it was finished" before it began:
    1Pe 1:20 He had been chosen by God before the creation of the world and was revealed in these last days for your sake.

    What a marvellous mystery!