One of the greatest sentences in scripture must surely be the line Jesus said on the Cross, "It is Finished." (tetelestai)
He had now completed all that he had been sent to do by the Father. Nothing was left unfinished. Everything was complete. Right? Tetelestai literally means the work in complete.
To the Father Jesus even said this out loud just before his Crucifixion just in case anyone wasn't sure, "I have finished the work you gave me to do" (John 17:4), and part of that work was that the WORLD would be judged (a decision to be made).
Jesus announces this plainly, shortly before the Cross. He said, "Now is the time for this world to be judged..." and then in the next verse he describes exactly when and how this will happen: "When I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw everyone to me." (John 12:32)
So, a decision (Judgement) was made over the WORLD - that's everyone - when Jesus was "lifted up" (Crucified).
This was why Jesus came - To reconcile ALL THINGS to God.
Col 1:19-20 "For it was the good pleasure of the Father that in him should all the fullness dwell; and through him to reconcile all things unto himself, having made peace through the blood of his cross; "
(Side note: Peace was made through the blood of his cross, not your decision to choose Him. It had NOTHING to do with you. In First Adam, the World was made unrighteous. This also had NOTHING to do with your decision. Well, in the same way that First Adam's action affected mankind, so too the action of Last Adam also affected Mankind. This is the "Good news of Joy and peace on earth for ALL MEN" as was announced by the Angels at the birth of Jesus).
again: 2 Cor 5:18 "But all things are of God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ,"
Q: How were we reconciled?
A: Through Christ - this is not of yourselves.
again: 2 Cor 5:19 "God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, not counting their sins against them.
There is so much Good News here!!!!!
So by the time Jesus said "It is Finished", we can be confident that this includes all the work that the Father sent him to do. Right?
This would include the WORLD having been Judged (a Decision having been made). (Remember in John 12 literally hours before his Crucifixion Jesus said, "Now is the hour of the Judgement of the World.... When I am lifted up I will draw all men to myself" ?
Q: Was Jesus lying about the Judgement of the World about to take place in himself on the cross?
Q: By the time Jesus said "It is Finished" and gave up his spirit, had he really completed everything the Father had sent him to do?
Q: Did God really reconcile the World to himself through Christ on the Cross, no longer counting their sins against them?
Romans 4:25 explains that the Resurrection of Jesus from the Dead is proof of our Justification (Innocence)
"He was delivered up because of our offences, and was raised up because of our being declared righteous."
Jesus would not have been Resurrected from the Dead if the Judgement made over ALL MEN (Remember, He drew ALL MEN to Himself at the Cross), was anything other than JUSTIFIED!!
Sadly modern Churchianity demands that we cant possibly fully embrace this Good News because of its modern view of the Book of Revelation....
We simply can not embrace the Good News that shouts out the Judgement of "Justified, Innocent, Reconciled!!" for All men because Revelation speaks of "ANOTHER" Judgement still to come.
Basically we have become prisoners to an interpretation of the book of Revelation that keeps the Finished work UNfinished.
But for all those "End times" guru's out there, and those people that have been hyped up or held captive by spectacular cinematography depicting a wild and NON "Good News for all men" view of Revelations, Here is a Beautiful Letdown for you: The book of Revelation is all about Jesus and the glorious Gospel of Reconciliation that was made manifest 2000 years ago for our sake.
Here we go: The Beautiful Letdown - Part 2
Showing posts with label Gospel. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Gospel. Show all posts
Saturday, December 26, 2015
Tuesday, March 3, 2015
The Lake of Fire - Part 2
Greetings
In my Last Post (The Lake of Fire - Part1) I briefly showed how the book of Revelation with all its imagery is Symbolic and NOT Literal. In fact this is one of the very first things that John mentions, that the things written in this book are disclosures about Jesus and are made known using Symbolism (Greek: Semaino).
However, many English translations over look this greek word and hence we have a seriously scewed view of the Gospel that somehow announces that Jesus took our judgement and the "full weight of our sin" and we have been Justified by His Faithfulness...... But ..... Dont get too excited just yet because its all gonna happen again at the end of this age.... another judgement!!!
(Please bare with me here, I'm pointing out the ludicrousy of looking at this from a traditional Western Churchianity view...)
So somehow, the innocence of ALL, that Jesus' resurrection is proof of (Rom 4:25), is no longer taken into account and there is going to be yet another Judgement...
Please take the time to think about that:
That our Just Father is going to discount the Justifying and Redeeming work of Jesus, and will again accredit the sins of the world back to the world, and then RE-judge everyone. But this time the criteria of our Justification is not NOT Jesus' Faith (as the scriptures declare time and time again), no, this time He will Judge a guilty world based on their own faith they managed to muster up.
(Never-mind that fact that He is the Originator and Conclusion of Faith - Heb 12 - and that NOBODY can come to God unless the Father Draw him...and that Scripture declares over and over again that He is the SAVIOR of the world or that Romans tells us that mans unbelief could NEVER nullify Gods Faithfulness to Save and that even if we are Faithless HE REMAINS Faithful or that ALL things have ALREADY been reconciled to Him.....
Perhaps His Arm actually IS to short to save?? Perhaps His Mercy does not endure for all ages?? Maybe every knee will not bow and every tongue will not confess his Lordship to His glory?? Maybe, just maybe, when He said "IT IS FINISHED" and gave up his spirit, he actually died before He could finish that sentence and he meant to add on.... "...Except, its not really finished because there is still another judgement coming.." Hmmmmm.....
But, as I pointed out in Part 1, with the correct translation of Revelation, we see clearly that this Book is All about Jesus and the revelation that God gave Him, to share with His disciples regarding the things that must shortly take place. (In Jesus' day.)
This "Disclosure" (Revelation) is about Jesus.... what his life/Death and resurrection accomplished.
God makes this all known to John using Signs and symbols - many of which God or "an angel" describes the meaning of.
So, what is "The Lake of Fire" about then if the book Revelation is all about Cross and the Good News of Jesus Christ? What is it Symbolic of?
Very clearly from this we see that John believed this was about to take place.
He says Jesus will Baptise them with fire.
Baptisms in those days usually took place in bodies of water: rivers, streams..... lakes!
He also says that Jesus will be doing some separating. He says the Wheat and the Chaff will be separated and the chaff burned up.
As we understand this, John was talking about the Day of Judgement. From Johns wording he seemed to believe that this was about to happen. "Even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees..."
Mathew 13:37-43
He answered and said to them: "He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. The enemy who sowed the is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. Therefore as the tares are gatherd and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all the things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth. then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!
"He who has ears to hear, let him hear!" - this means there is something more to what has been plainly stated.
Notice how similar this sounds to what John spoke about?
Q: When would this take place?
A: at the end of this age. Which, when Jesus said it was "That" age that he was currently in.
The pattern is the same: there is a separation of the good from the bad, the wheat from the tears, the fruit trees from the bad trees, the sheep from the goats etc.
Lets quickly look at when the end of that age was: (there is a lot more to say here, but for the sake of the topic at hand I will restrain myself - LOL!)
In Mat 24:3 the disciples ask Jesus, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and the end of the age?"
In Jesus response he says that the sun will be darkened, and the moon will turn blood red. then He says "Now when you see these things begin to take place, straighten up and raise your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.
Then he continues to say, "Truly, I say to you, THIS GENERATION will not pass away until these things take place. Heaven and Earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.
Then Peter Quotes Joel in Acts 2 talking about a new day ("The last days") he speaks about Blood, and FIRE, that the Moon turned to blood (symbolic of Jesus on the cross), the Sun turns to darkness, signs on the earth below (earthquake,), on that Great and Glorious day - All these happened on the Day Jesus was crucified!!!
Compare now: Rev 6:12-13
I looked when he opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood. And the stars of heaven fell to the earth....
(very interesting!! - again, the book of revelation is about Jesus. Its about what was Already accomplished. Rev 6 is describing the events surrounding the Cross. Its the Disclosure regarding the Savior of the World. Not some future cataclysmic event).
(stick with me here...)
Luke 12:49-51
I came to cast fire on the earth, and how i wish it was already kindled?
But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how i am straightened till it be accomplished! Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
Yet again Jesus is taking about Fire and Division.
He says here that the reason he was there was to bring fire upon the earth and he wished it was already burning, but it wasnt yet. He said that He still needed to go through a Baptism and he is determined that He will accomplish it (and He did. By the time he said "It is Finished" he had accomplished all he was sent to do).
You have to agree that it sounds like Jesus is saying that this Fire and Baptism was about to happen at that time?
He says he is determined (Straightened) to accomplish this. (NIV: "...Great is my distress until this is accomplished".)
Q: Did he accomplish bringing Fire on the earth, and did He accomplish going through a Baptism?
A: Yes. He did.
So lets clarify:
Traditional Churchianity says that despite what Jesus went through, there is still another Judgement to come. (mostly based on a futuristic interpretation of Revelation and some bad translation by translators with this self same futuristic view)
When is/was the Judgement of the World?
What does Jesus say?
John 12: 23-33
But Jesus answered them saying, "The hour has come that the Son of Man should be glorified. Most assuredly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone; but it it dies, it produces much grain. He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for (all the coming ages). If anyone serves me, let him follow me; and where I am, there my servant will be also. If anyone serves me, him my Father will honor. "Now my soul is troubled, and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour?"
But for this purpose I came to this hour. Father, glorify your name."
Then a voice came from heaven saying, " I have both glorified it and will glorify it again."
Therefore the people who stood by and heard it said that it had thundered. others said, "An angel has spoken to him."
Jesus answered and said, "this voice did not come because of me, but for your sake. Now is the judgement of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out. And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself." This he said signifying by what death he would die.
Q: When did Jesus say that the Judgement of the world was going to happen?
A: "Now" - which is "Back then" to us here in this present day.
Q: How/when would this Judgement of the world happen?
A: The word would be Judged IN HIM. He said that ALL men would be drawn (Dragged) to himself when he was on the cross.
(Side note: he also said, "Now the ruler of this world will be cast out"
Compare: Rev 12:9 "So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan...."
I will post a blog on all the comparatives like this one to show that Revelation is all about what Jesus has ALREADY accomplished through the cross and is not a future series of events).
Also note that God said he (Jesus) will be glorified.
Remember, as mentioned above in John 13 Jesus said that at the end of THAT age, he would send out his angles and they would gather out of his kingdom all the things that offend.... those that practice lawlessness... and they would be cast into the fire, then the righteousness will shine forth like the sun...
Mathew 25:31-34,
When the Son of Man comes in Glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. ALL the Nations will be gathered before him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.
And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. then the King will say to those on His right hand. Come, you are blessed of My father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from before the foundation of the world:
Then he will also say to those on the left hand, "Depart from me, you cursed, into the (age during) fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Notice that this happens when Christ comes in His Glory.
He will separate the sheep from the goats, just like the wheat from the tares, the good from the bad and He will burn up the bad side and grant (Age during) life to the good side.
This is the same division he said that he came to bring... along with Fire that would burn it all up.
All of these separations Jesus spoke about are clearly the Judgement of All mankind (as mentioned plainly in this passage, "All Nations gathered before him")
Remember just before he went to the Cross - as mentioned earlier - that Jesus said, "NOW is the hour here for the Judgement of the world." (again, "now" being back then for us reading it 2000 years later).
So, if the judgement of the world happened at the cross, then who was it that was burned up in the fires of judgement?
Rev21:8
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolators, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.
Quick important side note: In 1st Adam we ALL died - this was the 1st death of mankind.
On the cross, in Christ, we ALL Died (old self) again... Paul says, "We have concluded that if One died for ALL then ALL Died" - This is the 2nd Death of mankind. Just as we had no choice to be included into First Adams death, in the exact same way we ALL had no choice to be included into Last Adams death - When he was lifted up he drew ( greek: dragged) ALL men to Himself.
Romans 11:32 tells us plainly that God has counted EVERYONE in UNBELIEF, that he could have MERCY on EVERYONE.
Jesus' death symbolized the death of Everyone! The Fire that Jesus came to bring was the consuming of the sins of the world. Romans 6 tells us that we were ALL Baptized into His Death.
Jesus said he came to bring Division and Fire. When we ("all the nations", "all men") were Baptized into Him on the Cross, a separation took place: Sheep from Goat, Wheat from Tare, Good tree from Bad tree, Good fish from Bad fish, Chaff from wheat etc...
The Sin that separated us from God was REMOVED!! (Psalm 103:12 As far as the east is from the west, So far has he REMOVED our transgressions from us)
The separating parables are NOT some additional future event, but rather are symbolic of the separation of us from our transgressions.
We were all baptized in the baptism of fire that Jesus said he came to bring in a symbolic Lake of Fire. Baptism was always symbolic of a releasing of the old and arising as the new.
Paul writes that the Old has gone and behold ALL THINGS are made new - 2 Cor 5
John writes in Rev 21 (Just after the Lake of Fire), he sees a new earth and a New heaven for the old ones had passed away and God says, 'Now is the dwelling place of God with man"(Christ in you the Hope of Glory! - This is NOW, not in some confusing future).
I will wipe away every tear (the Comforter is with us NOW). I am making all things NEW.
Then God said, "It is Finished" (Rev 21:6)
Remember, Jesus only did and said what the Father was doing and saying?
That's why on the cross Jesus said, "It is Finished"
Q: Why is it important to know that?
A: So that we can understand that IT IS FINISHED. God is with us NOW, He lives in us!!!
We can feed off His comfort when we need to. We can feed it to others as he leads.
We can gladly forget about the horrific theory of another future Judgement and a literal Lake of Fire where God was going to throw people into "forever" What a abysmal view of God and the work of Cross!!!
Hope this helps?
Peace!!
In my Last Post (The Lake of Fire - Part1) I briefly showed how the book of Revelation with all its imagery is Symbolic and NOT Literal. In fact this is one of the very first things that John mentions, that the things written in this book are disclosures about Jesus and are made known using Symbolism (Greek: Semaino).
However, many English translations over look this greek word and hence we have a seriously scewed view of the Gospel that somehow announces that Jesus took our judgement and the "full weight of our sin" and we have been Justified by His Faithfulness...... But ..... Dont get too excited just yet because its all gonna happen again at the end of this age.... another judgement!!!
(Please bare with me here, I'm pointing out the ludicrousy of looking at this from a traditional Western Churchianity view...)
So somehow, the innocence of ALL, that Jesus' resurrection is proof of (Rom 4:25), is no longer taken into account and there is going to be yet another Judgement...
Please take the time to think about that:
That our Just Father is going to discount the Justifying and Redeeming work of Jesus, and will again accredit the sins of the world back to the world, and then RE-judge everyone. But this time the criteria of our Justification is not NOT Jesus' Faith (as the scriptures declare time and time again), no, this time He will Judge a guilty world based on their own faith they managed to muster up.
(Never-mind that fact that He is the Originator and Conclusion of Faith - Heb 12 - and that NOBODY can come to God unless the Father Draw him...and that Scripture declares over and over again that He is the SAVIOR of the world or that Romans tells us that mans unbelief could NEVER nullify Gods Faithfulness to Save and that even if we are Faithless HE REMAINS Faithful or that ALL things have ALREADY been reconciled to Him.....
Perhaps His Arm actually IS to short to save?? Perhaps His Mercy does not endure for all ages?? Maybe every knee will not bow and every tongue will not confess his Lordship to His glory?? Maybe, just maybe, when He said "IT IS FINISHED" and gave up his spirit, he actually died before He could finish that sentence and he meant to add on.... "...Except, its not really finished because there is still another judgement coming.." Hmmmmm.....
But, as I pointed out in Part 1, with the correct translation of Revelation, we see clearly that this Book is All about Jesus and the revelation that God gave Him, to share with His disciples regarding the things that must shortly take place. (In Jesus' day.)
This "Disclosure" (Revelation) is about Jesus.... what his life/Death and resurrection accomplished.
God makes this all known to John using Signs and symbols - many of which God or "an angel" describes the meaning of.
So, what is "The Lake of Fire" about then if the book Revelation is all about Cross and the Good News of Jesus Christ? What is it Symbolic of?
Rev 19:20
Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone
Ok, so we know that Revelation is revealed using signs
Lets quickly look at other Fire symbols used in Scripture:
Mathew 3:10-12"(John the Baptist speaking about Jesus)
And even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier that I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and Fire. His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone
Ok, so we know that Revelation is revealed using signs
Lets quickly look at other Fire symbols used in Scripture:
Mathew 3:10-12"(John the Baptist speaking about Jesus)
And even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier that I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and Fire. His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
Very clearly from this we see that John believed this was about to take place.
He says Jesus will Baptise them with fire.
Baptisms in those days usually took place in bodies of water: rivers, streams..... lakes!
He also says that Jesus will be doing some separating. He says the Wheat and the Chaff will be separated and the chaff burned up.
As we understand this, John was talking about the Day of Judgement. From Johns wording he seemed to believe that this was about to happen. "Even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees..."
Mathew 13:37-43
He answered and said to them: "He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. The enemy who sowed the is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. Therefore as the tares are gatherd and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all the things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth. then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!
"He who has ears to hear, let him hear!" - this means there is something more to what has been plainly stated.
Notice how similar this sounds to what John spoke about?
Q: When would this take place?
A: at the end of this age. Which, when Jesus said it was "That" age that he was currently in.
The pattern is the same: there is a separation of the good from the bad, the wheat from the tears, the fruit trees from the bad trees, the sheep from the goats etc.
Lets quickly look at when the end of that age was: (there is a lot more to say here, but for the sake of the topic at hand I will restrain myself - LOL!)
In Mat 24:3 the disciples ask Jesus, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and the end of the age?"
In Jesus response he says that the sun will be darkened, and the moon will turn blood red. then He says "Now when you see these things begin to take place, straighten up and raise your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.
Then he continues to say, "Truly, I say to you, THIS GENERATION will not pass away until these things take place. Heaven and Earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.
Then Peter Quotes Joel in Acts 2 talking about a new day ("The last days") he speaks about Blood, and FIRE, that the Moon turned to blood (symbolic of Jesus on the cross), the Sun turns to darkness, signs on the earth below (earthquake,), on that Great and Glorious day - All these happened on the Day Jesus was crucified!!!
Compare now: Rev 6:12-13
I looked when he opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood. And the stars of heaven fell to the earth....
(very interesting!! - again, the book of revelation is about Jesus. Its about what was Already accomplished. Rev 6 is describing the events surrounding the Cross. Its the Disclosure regarding the Savior of the World. Not some future cataclysmic event).
(stick with me here...)
Luke 12:49-51
I came to cast fire on the earth, and how i wish it was already kindled?
But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how i am straightened till it be accomplished! Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
Yet again Jesus is taking about Fire and Division.
He says here that the reason he was there was to bring fire upon the earth and he wished it was already burning, but it wasnt yet. He said that He still needed to go through a Baptism and he is determined that He will accomplish it (and He did. By the time he said "It is Finished" he had accomplished all he was sent to do).
You have to agree that it sounds like Jesus is saying that this Fire and Baptism was about to happen at that time?
He says he is determined (Straightened) to accomplish this. (NIV: "...Great is my distress until this is accomplished".)
Q: Did he accomplish bringing Fire on the earth, and did He accomplish going through a Baptism?
A: Yes. He did.
So lets clarify:
Traditional Churchianity says that despite what Jesus went through, there is still another Judgement to come. (mostly based on a futuristic interpretation of Revelation and some bad translation by translators with this self same futuristic view)
When is/was the Judgement of the World?
What does Jesus say?
John 12: 23-33
But Jesus answered them saying, "The hour has come that the Son of Man should be glorified. Most assuredly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone; but it it dies, it produces much grain. He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for (all the coming ages). If anyone serves me, let him follow me; and where I am, there my servant will be also. If anyone serves me, him my Father will honor. "Now my soul is troubled, and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour?"
But for this purpose I came to this hour. Father, glorify your name."
Then a voice came from heaven saying, " I have both glorified it and will glorify it again."
Therefore the people who stood by and heard it said that it had thundered. others said, "An angel has spoken to him."
Jesus answered and said, "this voice did not come because of me, but for your sake. Now is the judgement of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out. And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself." This he said signifying by what death he would die.
Q: When did Jesus say that the Judgement of the world was going to happen?
A: "Now" - which is "Back then" to us here in this present day.
Q: How/when would this Judgement of the world happen?
A: The word would be Judged IN HIM. He said that ALL men would be drawn (Dragged) to himself when he was on the cross.
(Side note: he also said, "Now the ruler of this world will be cast out"
Compare: Rev 12:9 "So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan...."
I will post a blog on all the comparatives like this one to show that Revelation is all about what Jesus has ALREADY accomplished through the cross and is not a future series of events).
Also note that God said he (Jesus) will be glorified.
Remember, as mentioned above in John 13 Jesus said that at the end of THAT age, he would send out his angles and they would gather out of his kingdom all the things that offend.... those that practice lawlessness... and they would be cast into the fire, then the righteousness will shine forth like the sun...
Mathew 25:31-34,
When the Son of Man comes in Glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. ALL the Nations will be gathered before him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.
And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. then the King will say to those on His right hand. Come, you are blessed of My father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from before the foundation of the world:
Then he will also say to those on the left hand, "Depart from me, you cursed, into the (age during) fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Notice that this happens when Christ comes in His Glory.
He will separate the sheep from the goats, just like the wheat from the tares, the good from the bad and He will burn up the bad side and grant (Age during) life to the good side.
This is the same division he said that he came to bring... along with Fire that would burn it all up.
All of these separations Jesus spoke about are clearly the Judgement of All mankind (as mentioned plainly in this passage, "All Nations gathered before him")
Remember just before he went to the Cross - as mentioned earlier - that Jesus said, "NOW is the hour here for the Judgement of the world." (again, "now" being back then for us reading it 2000 years later).
So, if the judgement of the world happened at the cross, then who was it that was burned up in the fires of judgement?
Rev21:8
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolators, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.
Quick important side note: In 1st Adam we ALL died - this was the 1st death of mankind.
On the cross, in Christ, we ALL Died (old self) again... Paul says, "We have concluded that if One died for ALL then ALL Died" - This is the 2nd Death of mankind. Just as we had no choice to be included into First Adams death, in the exact same way we ALL had no choice to be included into Last Adams death - When he was lifted up he drew ( greek: dragged) ALL men to Himself.
Romans 11:32 tells us plainly that God has counted EVERYONE in UNBELIEF, that he could have MERCY on EVERYONE.
Jesus' death symbolized the death of Everyone! The Fire that Jesus came to bring was the consuming of the sins of the world. Romans 6 tells us that we were ALL Baptized into His Death.
Jesus said he came to bring Division and Fire. When we ("all the nations", "all men") were Baptized into Him on the Cross, a separation took place: Sheep from Goat, Wheat from Tare, Good tree from Bad tree, Good fish from Bad fish, Chaff from wheat etc...
The Sin that separated us from God was REMOVED!! (Psalm 103:12 As far as the east is from the west, So far has he REMOVED our transgressions from us)
The separating parables are NOT some additional future event, but rather are symbolic of the separation of us from our transgressions.
We were all baptized in the baptism of fire that Jesus said he came to bring in a symbolic Lake of Fire. Baptism was always symbolic of a releasing of the old and arising as the new.
Paul writes that the Old has gone and behold ALL THINGS are made new - 2 Cor 5
John writes in Rev 21 (Just after the Lake of Fire), he sees a new earth and a New heaven for the old ones had passed away and God says, 'Now is the dwelling place of God with man"(Christ in you the Hope of Glory! - This is NOW, not in some confusing future).
I will wipe away every tear (the Comforter is with us NOW). I am making all things NEW.
Then God said, "It is Finished" (Rev 21:6)
Remember, Jesus only did and said what the Father was doing and saying?
That's why on the cross Jesus said, "It is Finished"
Q: Why is it important to know that?
A: So that we can understand that IT IS FINISHED. God is with us NOW, He lives in us!!!
We can feed off His comfort when we need to. We can feed it to others as he leads.
We can gladly forget about the horrific theory of another future Judgement and a literal Lake of Fire where God was going to throw people into "forever" What a abysmal view of God and the work of Cross!!!
Hope this helps?
Peace!!
Thursday, August 8, 2013
Thomas, Paul and the Faith of Jesus!
Its always a great exercise to sit back and ask questions of what we believe and why we believe it. Its been a pleasure to sit with Jesus and allow him to wash his Grace and Love over all areas of my theology and doctrine.To Allow his Grace to Stain and Wreck all our "Sacred doctrines" regarding topics like Tithing and Church-meetings, Hell and the Fathers love, has been an absolute Joy. He gives us the courage to change in the face of Tradition.
I've discovered that most of what we have previously believe has been not much more than man's traditions dressed up as "the gospel". Here is another wonderful point to think on, and hopefully you will begin to realize just how Big this Gospel really is and what a wonderful Father we have!
Jesus' disciple, The Apostle Thomas could not possibly have been "saved" according to Modern Western Christianities Rules! He did not place his faith in the risen Christ. He did not believe until AFTER he saw Jesus Face to Face.
In John 20 after His Resurrection, Jesus appears to Mary, then to all the disciples except Thomas.
The disciples run to find Thomas to tell him the Good news of the Risen Jesus. But he denies this Good news, He simply does NOT believe or have any Faith in Jesus. he said:
Joh 20:25 So the other disciples told him, "We have seen the Lord." But he said to them, "Unless I see in his hands the mark of the nails, and place my finger into the mark of the nails, and place my hand into his side, I will never believe."
Thomas outright denied the existence of the Risen Christ. He refused to "place his faith in Jesus"
But hold on... Weren't we all taught that placing our personal faith in Jesus is THE requirement for Salvation?
The account goes on to tell that a few days after this, they were all together inside a locked room and Jesus appeared in their midst.
He said to Thomas, "“Reach here your finger, and see my hands. Reach here your hand, and put it into my side. Don’t be unbelieving, but believing.”
So we see that even right up to this point, Thomas still had no faith/belief in the Good News as Jesus said to him, "don't be unbelieving".
Thomas is then filled with Joy as now he finally believes! But only after having SEEN Jesus, the Risen Christ.
Again, Doesn't Western Christianity teach that you can only "Choose Jesus now" because "when you are standing before Him, it'll be too late to decide to believe in him then!"
Jesus goes on to say, "Because you have seen me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen, and have believed."
(it is necessary to point out here that the word translated "Blessed" (makarios) simply means "Happy". It does not mean they somehow have "extra merit" conferred on them via some special "anointing"..... it just means that they are Happy. Religious Christianity has made up a whole system of levels of blessing based on a whole lot of stuff, eg: if you give/tithe you will be extra "blessed" by God. The word simply means "happy")
From here we can see that Jesus was actually OK with Thomas believing the Good News only after having seen him.
Thomas was not the only one who only believed the Good news after having seen the Risen, Glorified Christ first. The is another man who also followed Thomas' pattern.....The Apostle Paul.
Paul
Paul was a man who was extremely opposed to the Good News message! So much so that he would imprison and have executed those who embraced the Gospel. Yet in One glorious moment of encounter, as Paul meets the risen Jesus in his Glory, He instantly believes!
Paul only became a believer AFTER having seen Jesus for himself!
Here is a wonderful description from Paul:
1Ti 1:12 I thank him who has given me strength, Christ Jesus our Lord, because he judged me faithful, appointing me to his service, (Paul was Judged as "faithful" before his appointment by God to serve him, but before His appointment, he was an unbeliever who only believed after having seen Jesus face to face.)
1Ti 1:13 though formerly I was a blasphemer, persecutor, and insolent opponent. But I received mercy because I had acted ignorantly in unbelief, (many in this age will reject Christ out of Ignorance and unbelief)
1Ti 1:14 and the grace of our Lord overflowed for me with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. (As an unbeliever, Paul was extended Grace via the FAITH and LOVE OF JESUS - not his own faith.)
1Ti 1:15 The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost. (Note, Jesus saves sinners with His own Faith. Sinners can not save themselves or make their own decision based on their own wisdom)
1Ti 1:16 But I received mercy for this reason, that in me, as the foremost, Jesus Christ might display his perfect patience as a pattern to those who shall believe in him for eternal(age-during) life.
1Ti 1:17 To the King of the ages(different periods of time), immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.
Here we see Paul saying that he was saved by the Mercy of God, by His Grace and His Faith and His Love, and not of any of Paul's doing.
Paul says that Gods display of Mercy in Salvation to him is a PATTERN/example to them that do not yet believe.
How did Paul believe? He saw the risen Christ and only then Believed.
Paul then emphasizes (vs 17) that God is the king of all the coming Ages.
He the writes that: “Jesus is the Savior of all mankind, especially of those who believe/trustful/persuaded.” (1 Tim. 4:10)
Paul states here that Jesus is the Savior of mankind but he is especially valuable to those who are now already convinced/persuaded/trusting of this fact. - In this age, they that believe will be "Happy" (Blessed) based on this fact.
Again, "blessed (happy) are those who believe without seeing God", but there will be many who will follow the same pattern of Paul who will believe after having seen. And like Thomas "Unless I see Him, I will not believe!"
My question is: Has God changed as revealed by Jesus in this account? - surely not.
Does God show partiality to Thomas and Paul by allowing only them to believe after having seen the risen Christ? - Surely not.
Will God reject those who have already died in their unbelief who did not believe, Or those at the end of this age who see him as he really is? Will he respond differently to these ones - not showing Grace, not showing Mercy, not showing Love and not showing Faith towards them? Will not EVERY knee bow and tongue confess him to His praise?
Heb 1:3 "The Son shows the glory of God. He is a perfect copy of God's nature"
Remember, Jesus perfectly reflected the Father and he demonstrated the Fathers heart when He accepted these guys who would not have believed if they did not first see Him.
Where does that leave "You can only saved if you place YOUR faith in Jesus in this age"??
God tells us that into the ages to come He will still be revealing his Grace to man.(Eph 2) These are those that will believe after having seen Him as he truly is like Paul and Thomas.
Presently we might only know in part but Then when we see him face to face we shall know him as He truly is - even as we have always been fully known by Him.
Many will believe the Gospel after having seen Jesus in his Glory, not only in this Age we are currently in, but also in the Ages to come.
Our Traditional Christianities representation of God is a Far cry from the Reality of Him who is the author of salvation, the Savior of all mankind, The Source and the Conclusion of Faith.
May the eyes of your heart be opened!
Love
I've discovered that most of what we have previously believe has been not much more than man's traditions dressed up as "the gospel". Here is another wonderful point to think on, and hopefully you will begin to realize just how Big this Gospel really is and what a wonderful Father we have!
Jesus' disciple, The Apostle Thomas could not possibly have been "saved" according to Modern Western Christianities Rules! He did not place his faith in the risen Christ. He did not believe until AFTER he saw Jesus Face to Face.
In John 20 after His Resurrection, Jesus appears to Mary, then to all the disciples except Thomas.
The disciples run to find Thomas to tell him the Good news of the Risen Jesus. But he denies this Good news, He simply does NOT believe or have any Faith in Jesus. he said:
Joh 20:25 So the other disciples told him, "We have seen the Lord." But he said to them, "Unless I see in his hands the mark of the nails, and place my finger into the mark of the nails, and place my hand into his side, I will never believe."
Thomas outright denied the existence of the Risen Christ. He refused to "place his faith in Jesus"
But hold on... Weren't we all taught that placing our personal faith in Jesus is THE requirement for Salvation?
The account goes on to tell that a few days after this, they were all together inside a locked room and Jesus appeared in their midst.
He said to Thomas, "“Reach here your finger, and see my hands. Reach here your hand, and put it into my side. Don’t be unbelieving, but believing.”
So we see that even right up to this point, Thomas still had no faith/belief in the Good News as Jesus said to him, "don't be unbelieving".
Thomas is then filled with Joy as now he finally believes! But only after having SEEN Jesus, the Risen Christ.
Again, Doesn't Western Christianity teach that you can only "Choose Jesus now" because "when you are standing before Him, it'll be too late to decide to believe in him then!"
Jesus goes on to say, "Because you have seen me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen, and have believed."
(it is necessary to point out here that the word translated "Blessed" (makarios) simply means "Happy". It does not mean they somehow have "extra merit" conferred on them via some special "anointing"..... it just means that they are Happy. Religious Christianity has made up a whole system of levels of blessing based on a whole lot of stuff, eg: if you give/tithe you will be extra "blessed" by God. The word simply means "happy")
From here we can see that Jesus was actually OK with Thomas believing the Good News only after having seen him.
Thomas was not the only one who only believed the Good news after having seen the Risen, Glorified Christ first. The is another man who also followed Thomas' pattern.....The Apostle Paul.
Paul
Paul was a man who was extremely opposed to the Good News message! So much so that he would imprison and have executed those who embraced the Gospel. Yet in One glorious moment of encounter, as Paul meets the risen Jesus in his Glory, He instantly believes!
Paul only became a believer AFTER having seen Jesus for himself!
Here is a wonderful description from Paul:
1Ti 1:12 I thank him who has given me strength, Christ Jesus our Lord, because he judged me faithful, appointing me to his service, (Paul was Judged as "faithful" before his appointment by God to serve him, but before His appointment, he was an unbeliever who only believed after having seen Jesus face to face.)
1Ti 1:13 though formerly I was a blasphemer, persecutor, and insolent opponent. But I received mercy because I had acted ignorantly in unbelief, (many in this age will reject Christ out of Ignorance and unbelief)
1Ti 1:14 and the grace of our Lord overflowed for me with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. (As an unbeliever, Paul was extended Grace via the FAITH and LOVE OF JESUS - not his own faith.)
1Ti 1:15 The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost. (Note, Jesus saves sinners with His own Faith. Sinners can not save themselves or make their own decision based on their own wisdom)
1Ti 1:16 But I received mercy for this reason, that in me, as the foremost, Jesus Christ might display his perfect patience as a pattern to those who shall believe in him for eternal(age-during) life.
1Ti 1:17 To the King of the ages(different periods of time), immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.
Paul says that Gods display of Mercy in Salvation to him is a PATTERN/example to them that do not yet believe.
How did Paul believe? He saw the risen Christ and only then Believed.
Paul then emphasizes (vs 17) that God is the king of all the coming Ages.
He the writes that: “Jesus is the Savior of all mankind, especially of those who believe/trustful/persuaded.” (1 Tim. 4:10)
Paul states here that Jesus is the Savior of mankind but he is especially valuable to those who are now already convinced/persuaded/trusting of this fact. - In this age, they that believe will be "Happy" (Blessed) based on this fact.
Again, "blessed (happy) are those who believe without seeing God", but there will be many who will follow the same pattern of Paul who will believe after having seen. And like Thomas "Unless I see Him, I will not believe!"
My question is: Has God changed as revealed by Jesus in this account? - surely not.
Does God show partiality to Thomas and Paul by allowing only them to believe after having seen the risen Christ? - Surely not.
Will God reject those who have already died in their unbelief who did not believe, Or those at the end of this age who see him as he really is? Will he respond differently to these ones - not showing Grace, not showing Mercy, not showing Love and not showing Faith towards them? Will not EVERY knee bow and tongue confess him to His praise?
Heb 1:3 "The Son shows the glory of God. He is a perfect copy of God's nature"
Remember, Jesus perfectly reflected the Father and he demonstrated the Fathers heart when He accepted these guys who would not have believed if they did not first see Him.
Where does that leave "You can only saved if you place YOUR faith in Jesus in this age"??
God tells us that into the ages to come He will still be revealing his Grace to man.(Eph 2) These are those that will believe after having seen Him as he truly is like Paul and Thomas.
Presently we might only know in part but Then when we see him face to face we shall know him as He truly is - even as we have always been fully known by Him.
Many will believe the Gospel after having seen Jesus in his Glory, not only in this Age we are currently in, but also in the Ages to come.
Our Traditional Christianities representation of God is a Far cry from the Reality of Him who is the author of salvation, the Savior of all mankind, The Source and the Conclusion of Faith.
May the eyes of your heart be opened!
Love
Wednesday, August 7, 2013
Adamic Universalism vs Christianity
Good day everyone!!
Tradition is a very huge tide that moves in one direction.
Heresy is defined as any thought that stands against what is currently accepted as truth. Jesus himself was an Heretic by deffinition as He spoke and acted very contrary to the norm of His day. Paul was an Heretic, Martin Luther was an Heretic. and these days I delight in being labeled an Heretic too.
Tradition is not always a bad thing - like celebrating a birthday or special event... But when Tradition prevents people from being as Free as they were always intended to be then Society needs brave individuals to begin to walk against the tide of that Tradition.
Tradition is a very huge tide that moves in one direction.
Heresy is defined as any thought that stands against what is currently accepted as truth. Jesus himself was an Heretic by deffinition as He spoke and acted very contrary to the norm of His day. Paul was an Heretic, Martin Luther was an Heretic. and these days I delight in being labeled an Heretic too.
Tradition is not always a bad thing - like celebrating a birthday or special event... But when Tradition prevents people from being as Free as they were always intended to be then Society needs brave individuals to begin to walk against the tide of that Tradition.
I know many people like this who have simply fallen in Love with Father and can no longer go with the Flow of Traditional theology.. They have become outcasts to those in the Relligious System but have also become great hope to the rest who couldn't keep up the facade of Religious Christianity.
The Tradition of Adamic Universalism
Traditional Christianity believe's that all of mankind today is born into the consequence of Adams sin - Everyone is born fallen because of Adams sin.
Traditional Christianity LEAVES ALL MANKIND THERE AS A DEFAULT - IN FIRST ADAM (This is the tradition of Adamic Universalism).
However, Scripture DOES NOT LEAVE THEM THERE! (This is Christianity)
I see this in Scripture:
"Just as the result of one trespass was condemnation of ALL MEN, in the same way the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for ALL MEN." (Rom. 5:18)
"Since by man came death, by man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam ALL died, even so in Christ ALL shall be made alive." (1 Cor. 15:22)
On the THIRD DAY He will raise us up that we may live in His sight." (Hosea 6:1, 2)
Traditional Christianity LEAVES mankind in 1st Adam as a condemned sinner.(this is the Tradition of Adamic Universalism)
The Tradition of Adamic Universalism
Q: Who is the Word of God?
A: Jesus
Jesus told us that our Traditions would nullify the Word of God.
When we get stuck in Traditions we leave little room for Christ to be displayed to the world through us. Often, our Traditions restrict any prompting from God (but not always of course.)
Lets have a look and Identify what the mainstream Tradition of "Adamic Universalism" is:
Traditional Christianity believe's that all of mankind today is born into the consequence of Adams sin - Everyone is born fallen because of Adams sin.
Nobody is excluded,
You do not have a say in the matter - You have Adams "sin-nature" imputed to you and God's condemnation follows you all the way to the grave and into all eternity. Everyone is universally condemned by Adams sin. This is exactly what we used to preach concerning Mankinds natural DEFAULT status from birth)
BUT (continues this Tradition), ONLY If you accept the message "we" preach can you be taken out of 1st Adam and placed into Last Adam (Jesus). It all depends on your decision, its up to you to Believe and Receive.
Traditional Christianity says that All men were made sinners because of First Adam - having NO CHOICE IN THE MATTER, Not having made a personal decision to be in 1st Adam. Because of Adam, Mankind's DEFAULT position was a "condemned sinner" by virtue of being created in their mother's womb by God himself....
BUT (continues this Tradition), ONLY If you accept the message "we" preach can you be taken out of 1st Adam and placed into Last Adam (Jesus). It all depends on your decision, its up to you to Believe and Receive.
Traditional Christianity says that All men were made sinners because of First Adam - having NO CHOICE IN THE MATTER, Not having made a personal decision to be in 1st Adam. Because of Adam, Mankind's DEFAULT position was a "condemned sinner" by virtue of being created in their mother's womb by God himself....
Traditional Christianity LEAVES ALL MANKIND THERE AS A DEFAULT - IN FIRST ADAM (This is the tradition of Adamic Universalism).
However, Scripture DOES NOT LEAVE THEM THERE! (This is Christianity)
I see this in Scripture:
"Just as the result of one trespass was condemnation of ALL MEN, in the same way the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for ALL MEN." (Rom. 5:18)
"Since by man came death, by man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam ALL died, even so in Christ ALL shall be made alive." (1 Cor. 15:22)
On the THIRD DAY He will raise us up that we may live in His sight." (Hosea 6:1, 2)
It says: "JUST AS" or "In the Same way" as ALL were place into 1st Adam by his sin (not needing faith or having to receive this via a decision), IN THIS SAME WAY through One mans act of Righteousness is Justification and Life GIVEN to ALL men.
The righteous act of Jesus has given LIFE to ALL Men.
The righteous act of Jesus has given LIFE to ALL Men.
Traditional Christianity LEAVES mankind in 1st Adam as a condemned sinner.(this is the Tradition of Adamic Universalism)
The GOOD NEWS is that CHRIST has "Rescued" ALL MEN from that Default status. (This is Christianity - its Good News)
Grace to you as he leads you to stand up against the Tide of a Traditional Gospel!
Tuesday, August 6, 2013
Universalism Condones Idol worship?
Along this radical journey with Jesus we may face some very good questions from those who do not yet believe or come from a religious background as i did.
Here is a great question that often comes up:
"The lie of universalism is telling people its perfectly fine to worship other Gods because they are all already seated with Christ in heavenly places. "
Its Important to know that there are a few different types of universalism out there. The first part of what this person said here is the type of universalism that says "All roads lead to Rome! Worship who you want, they are all god anyway".
I do not support this type of universalism.This is Secular Universalism.
I believe that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life and NOBODY comes to the Father except THROUGH HIM. He is the Door.
The fact is that people worship other gods based on Ignorance - ie, Its all they know.... their parents did it, now they do it.
The Good News is that Jesus has made a Way through the Cross for ALL MAN - Despite their Ignorance.
On the cross Jesus said, "Father forgive them because THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO - they are IGNORANT"
Jesus did'nt think ignorance was a good thing, hence his forgiveness of it. therefore universalism does not believe its fine to leave people in Ignorance. Jesus wants people to KNOW the Truth and be set Free.
Paul, when he was on Mars Hill was speaking to IDOL worshippers (not Christians) in Acts 17:28 when he said, "For in Him WE live and move and exist, as also some of the poets among you have said, For WE are indeed HIS OFFSPRING."
Paul did NOT exclude these unbelievers from God because of their Ignorance, In fact he calls them GOD's CHILDREN! - He did not endorse their false practice (that would be Secular Universalism), but rather he tells them the GOOD NEWS of their true identity. - They are indeed ALREADY SEATED WITH CHRIST, because that happened at the resurrection.
Remember Jesus said, "When I am lifted up (speaking of his crucifixion), I will draw/drag ALL MEN TO MYSELF (john 12:32). Then in Romans(6) Paul tells us that if we were included in His crucifixion (which Jesus said we all were) then we are also included in his burial, then too are we ALL INCLUDED IN HIS RESURRECTION. He raised us up while we were still dead and seated us WITH him. We were raised up with Him when He was raised up AND NOT WHEN WE BELIEVED. In the same way that God shows mercy to the very ones who crucified him by forgiving them in their Ignorance, our ignorance was Not an issue regarding our inclusion in His life, death and ressurection.
Certainly Ignorance will cause one to miss out on enjoying their Union with their Maker and even cause them to perish* in some cases. (*in this age).
- My people perish for Ignorance. Hence the Good News and "the Hope (deff: certain Expectation of good things) that all would come to the knowledge of God"
A Follow on question from the first one could be:
"If Paul had the revelation that you have, he would have sat back and rather celebrated. Why get beaten to lead people to Christ who are already in Christ. Why become all things to all men to save some."
Well, Paul reveals to us his motivation in 2 Cor 5:14
He says that "we are compelled by love! because we have concluded this: that one died for all, therefore ALL HAVE DIED"
We can see that motivation was the love of God for all men and the ramifications of their co-crucifixion with Christ.
We are not "co-crucified with Christ"only when we believe! But rather we were co-crucified with Christ WHEN CHRIST WAS CRUCIFIED.This mind blowing revelation was his motivator.
Love is Motivating him - His message is one of inclusion for ALL MEN into the death and ressurection of Jesus who came because God so loved us, even while we were enemies towards him... even while we were dead in sin. But because of His insane Love he made us alive agian.
What Good News!!! To share our cause for celebration with the Ignorant that they may consciously feel his Love too!! That they may KNOW the truth and be set Free to live in their reconciliation.
All are indeed saved (rescued) by the Saviour. He is "the Saviour of the world" If we dont really believe that, then what kind of Gospel are we preaching???
Its not a Gospel at all.
Here is a great question that often comes up:
"The lie of universalism is telling people its perfectly fine to worship other Gods because they are all already seated with Christ in heavenly places. "
Its Important to know that there are a few different types of universalism out there. The first part of what this person said here is the type of universalism that says "All roads lead to Rome! Worship who you want, they are all god anyway".
I do not support this type of universalism.This is Secular Universalism.
I believe that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life and NOBODY comes to the Father except THROUGH HIM. He is the Door.
The fact is that people worship other gods based on Ignorance - ie, Its all they know.... their parents did it, now they do it.
The Good News is that Jesus has made a Way through the Cross for ALL MAN - Despite their Ignorance.
On the cross Jesus said, "Father forgive them because THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO - they are IGNORANT"
Jesus did'nt think ignorance was a good thing, hence his forgiveness of it. therefore universalism does not believe its fine to leave people in Ignorance. Jesus wants people to KNOW the Truth and be set Free.
Paul, when he was on Mars Hill was speaking to IDOL worshippers (not Christians) in Acts 17:28 when he said, "For in Him WE live and move and exist, as also some of the poets among you have said, For WE are indeed HIS OFFSPRING."
Paul did NOT exclude these unbelievers from God because of their Ignorance, In fact he calls them GOD's CHILDREN! - He did not endorse their false practice (that would be Secular Universalism), but rather he tells them the GOOD NEWS of their true identity. - They are indeed ALREADY SEATED WITH CHRIST, because that happened at the resurrection.
Remember Jesus said, "When I am lifted up (speaking of his crucifixion), I will draw/drag ALL MEN TO MYSELF (john 12:32). Then in Romans(6) Paul tells us that if we were included in His crucifixion (which Jesus said we all were) then we are also included in his burial, then too are we ALL INCLUDED IN HIS RESURRECTION. He raised us up while we were still dead and seated us WITH him. We were raised up with Him when He was raised up AND NOT WHEN WE BELIEVED. In the same way that God shows mercy to the very ones who crucified him by forgiving them in their Ignorance, our ignorance was Not an issue regarding our inclusion in His life, death and ressurection.
Certainly Ignorance will cause one to miss out on enjoying their Union with their Maker and even cause them to perish* in some cases. (*in this age).
- My people perish for Ignorance. Hence the Good News and "the Hope (deff: certain Expectation of good things) that all would come to the knowledge of God"
A Follow on question from the first one could be:
"If Paul had the revelation that you have, he would have sat back and rather celebrated. Why get beaten to lead people to Christ who are already in Christ. Why become all things to all men to save some."
Well, Paul reveals to us his motivation in 2 Cor 5:14
He says that "we are compelled by love! because we have concluded this: that one died for all, therefore ALL HAVE DIED"
We can see that motivation was the love of God for all men and the ramifications of their co-crucifixion with Christ.
We are not "co-crucified with Christ"only when we believe! But rather we were co-crucified with Christ WHEN CHRIST WAS CRUCIFIED.This mind blowing revelation was his motivator.
Love is Motivating him - His message is one of inclusion for ALL MEN into the death and ressurection of Jesus who came because God so loved us, even while we were enemies towards him... even while we were dead in sin. But because of His insane Love he made us alive agian.
What Good News!!! To share our cause for celebration with the Ignorant that they may consciously feel his Love too!! That they may KNOW the truth and be set Free to live in their reconciliation.
All are indeed saved (rescued) by the Saviour. He is "the Saviour of the world" If we dont really believe that, then what kind of Gospel are we preaching???
Its not a Gospel at all.
Universalism is simply Gnosticism dressed up?
Hey Guys. Along our journey into the Good News we, of necessity, have needed to ask ourselves and answer some valid questions of ourselves and from others.
Some questions are just an attempt to discredit what has become a deeply precious Gospel (actually Good news for ALL). And in answering these statements/questions we have learnt a whole lot of stuff ourselves in the process.
Statement: "Universalism (Or Universal Reconciliation - UR) is a modern form of gnostic thoughts. It is a heresy that is keeping the gospel from being spread to the ends of the earth. It is keeping people out of the kingdom."
Lets us have a look at exactly what Gnosticism is see who falls into this category:
Gnostics believe that since matter "is evil", God could not really incarnate in a human body.
A huge part of what we (UR) believe is that Jesus was FULLY God and simultaneously FULLY man. (the son of God and the son of man).The Humanity of Jesus is an essential element in the Gospel.
So, does Gnosticism match up to UR since Gnosticism says Jesus didn't come in the Flesh?
Answer: No.
The Gnostics supposedly had knowledge of God that was exclusive. They considered themselves superior. (Some brothers continuously refer to those who believe in Universal Reconciliation as being "Elitist" in their revelation)
My thought on this is: Wouldn't you not rather call the group that excludes more than 80% of humanity from having any share in God because they (the 80%) have different to their own revelation an "Elite" group?
They (Modern Western Christianity) have claimed exclusive rights on God who is "ALL IN ALL and Holds ALL things together!"
They (modern western Christianity) say you have to have a SPECIFIC BELIEF in order to "join their club" and be a part of them, and if you dont have "their" specific belief then you are EXCLUDED from their heaven and have to go to their Hell for eternity!
In all honesty, wouldn't you agree that this more closely fits Gnosticism that UR??
What I believe is that NO BODY is excluded from God by not having specific knowledge, but rather EVERYONE is INCLUDED in Christ through the INCARNATION of JESUS!
Honestly.... who is Elitist here??? Modern Western Christianity OR Universalists?The answer goes without saying...
Gnostics believe that "the body and soul" of a man is naturally evil and only the "spirit" is good.
I believe that the WHOLE of man is good and we should not call "unclean" what God has made clean.
Jesus' incarnation reveals Mankind's perfection because he came AS US. He came to show us who we really are and that he is Perfectly content to live inside us (we are his house - his dwelling - "in my Fathers house are many rooms - Thats US!... Christ IN YOU!!).
Modern Western Christianity believes that man is Intrinsically Evil (ie, still in First Adam)
I believe that just as one (1st Adam) offense resulted in condemnation for ALL, so one (Jesus) act of righteousness results in justification and life for ALL.
I believe that Mankind is intrinsically GOOD!
So again, I ask which looks more like Gnosticism? Universalism OR Modern Western Christianity?
Certainly some food for thought!! :)
Check out the link below for a whole series on Gnosticism in Christianity.
Gnosticism vs Incarnation
Keep the Good News Good News!!
Love
Some questions are just an attempt to discredit what has become a deeply precious Gospel (actually Good news for ALL). And in answering these statements/questions we have learnt a whole lot of stuff ourselves in the process.
Statement: "Universalism (Or Universal Reconciliation - UR) is a modern form of gnostic thoughts. It is a heresy that is keeping the gospel from being spread to the ends of the earth. It is keeping people out of the kingdom."
Lets us have a look at exactly what Gnosticism is see who falls into this category:
Gnostics believe that since matter "is evil", God could not really incarnate in a human body.
A huge part of what we (UR) believe is that Jesus was FULLY God and simultaneously FULLY man. (the son of God and the son of man).The Humanity of Jesus is an essential element in the Gospel.
So, does Gnosticism match up to UR since Gnosticism says Jesus didn't come in the Flesh?
Answer: No.
The Gnostics supposedly had knowledge of God that was exclusive. They considered themselves superior. (Some brothers continuously refer to those who believe in Universal Reconciliation as being "Elitist" in their revelation)
My thought on this is: Wouldn't you not rather call the group that excludes more than 80% of humanity from having any share in God because they (the 80%) have different to their own revelation an "Elite" group?
They (Modern Western Christianity) have claimed exclusive rights on God who is "ALL IN ALL and Holds ALL things together!"
They (modern western Christianity) say you have to have a SPECIFIC BELIEF in order to "join their club" and be a part of them, and if you dont have "their" specific belief then you are EXCLUDED from their heaven and have to go to their Hell for eternity!
In all honesty, wouldn't you agree that this more closely fits Gnosticism that UR??
What I believe is that NO BODY is excluded from God by not having specific knowledge, but rather EVERYONE is INCLUDED in Christ through the INCARNATION of JESUS!
Honestly.... who is Elitist here??? Modern Western Christianity OR Universalists?The answer goes without saying...
Gnostics believe that "the body and soul" of a man is naturally evil and only the "spirit" is good.
I believe that the WHOLE of man is good and we should not call "unclean" what God has made clean.
Jesus' incarnation reveals Mankind's perfection because he came AS US. He came to show us who we really are and that he is Perfectly content to live inside us (we are his house - his dwelling - "in my Fathers house are many rooms - Thats US!... Christ IN YOU!!).
Modern Western Christianity believes that man is Intrinsically Evil (ie, still in First Adam)
I believe that just as one (1st Adam) offense resulted in condemnation for ALL, so one (Jesus) act of righteousness results in justification and life for ALL.
I believe that Mankind is intrinsically GOOD!
So again, I ask which looks more like Gnosticism? Universalism OR Modern Western Christianity?
Certainly some food for thought!! :)
Check out the link below for a whole series on Gnosticism in Christianity.
Gnosticism vs Incarnation
Keep the Good News Good News!!
Love
Sunday, May 5, 2013
Keeping the Gospel Central.
Great Article by Dave Vaughn on living from Rest:
Hey Guys,
Hey Guys,
Trust you are all doing amazingly well! I thought this may be a good opportunity to share a few more thoughts I have on the whole issue of Revival V Reality! We were truly overwhelmed by the sheer amount of responses after our last update. It was awesome to hear your hearts and to receive the encouragement which showed that so many of us are on the same page at this time! Timing and perspective are so key. In no way are we against any legitimate move of God and we certainly want to be known for what we are 'For' rather than what we are 'Against,' yet it's ok to give a perspective which hopefully broadens the picture of what we are seeing manifest. Again I suppose naturally guys are asking the question, "Well if there are healings manifest in certain revivals then obviously it's God moving, if so why aren't there more healings manifesting through other streams and ministries?" Great question and one I want to attempt to address in this update!
Over the past 20 years we have seen some tremendous manifestations of heaven on Earth. I'm currently putting the framework together for a book I want to write, a book of stories from the 'Rest,' a correlation of Supernatural events we have seen 'Effortlessly' manifest over such a short space of time. Thinking back it's been so easy to recognize that our lives have always been and will always be totally supernatural! Just in the 'Being' just in enjoying Life and walking out humanities perfection we become releasers of heaven on Earth. We are the Open Portal, we are Jacobs Ladder, we are the bridge between realms who reflect the very Image of a Glorious Father! It's not difficult to walk in the Supernatural, when we open our eyes each morning the angels get pumped and all of creation responds! We've seen the craziest stuff!!! We have found the key to a totally supernatural life, I call it 'Abiding in the Vine!' We are not looking for another door to open, another veil to be rent, another angel to appear, another 'Move' to happen! You are dealing with drunk people, satisfied people, Sons and not Slaves, those who remain! There are times where we are so overwhelmed that not even a 'Face to Face' with Jesus could add or compliment heavens perfection manifesting all around us. The 'Rest' we find ourselves in is perfect, perfection itself! We are not seeking another 'Sign' but are beginning to realize that we ARE a sign which others are seeking after! Crazily we are finding ourselves 'Locked in' by a revelation of the Gospel into an Eden which knows nothing about Times and Seasons, doesn't expect a dark night of the Soul or a Dry Time but has arrived at a place called PERFECT!
We have seen some tremendous healings over the past 20 years. I remember being with my great friend Phil Smith on the streets of Sheffield a few years back. Phil and I were hammered drunk, not looking to 'Do' anything in-particular other than enjoy a great day together. Somehow in our Drunken stupor we happened upon a guy who was bound in a wheelchair and had been for 17 years. His friends who had brought him to the town to do his weekly shop had only ever seen him in a wheelchair. Phil and I staggered over to him and asked if he thought Jesus really cared about him, his response was YES! We quickly whipped the arms up on his chair and asked his friends to hold him up. As they did his legs which had no strength flapped about like sheets in the wind! As we laid hands on his body and commanded strength to come back, his legs bolted straight and went as hard as metal. Before we knew it the guy had left the confines of his chair and was walking, then running through the streets of Sheffield England!!! It was amazing and sort of a strange day in the Glory! We felt no need to start a revival, we had no meetings to extend or offering bowl to pass around, it was just drunken life! I loved it! The first time I visited India with John Crowder in 2007 I remember preaching to about 800 guys. The Glory was strong and the healings just popped! Many threw away crutches, many blind eyes were opened, many heard for the first time, we easily saw over a hundred healings including the cancerous healed, paralyzed walk and dumb speak. It was awesome! I remember one sweet lady coming forward with a huge tumor in her neck. As I laid my hands on the tumor and commanded it to go I watched as it started trembling right in front of my eyes! The next night the lady came back and testified in the meeting, the Tumor was totally gone! I remember how crazy that time was YET there was such a sense that this was just normal Christian Life! I've been with John Crowder many times and seen crazy healings including supernatural Weight Loss miracles where some guys have dropped 20 pound or more in a meeting! This isn't a focus just LIFE!
Not only have we seen crazy healings but also insane supernatural events. Sometimes we just get so whacked the significance of who we are and what we carry doesn't even register! Yet we have shown up in nations all over the world absolutely blasted on our union with Him and have watched as creation has shown off! It's always fun when that stuff happens. Lightening storms, Snow Storms, Tornados, Transportations in the Spirit, Journey Elongation Miracles, Earth Tremors, all sorts of weird stuff! Sometimes we are aware of who we are and where we are seated and expect things to take place, other times we are just hammered and wake up wondering what on earth is going on! Just last week Joanne Gravell and I were in Llanelli, all day long the Glory was heavy, it was so easy to see we were in Eden together enjoying Life and the works of His hands. At times we totally tranced out and at one point 5 hours just seemed to fly by! At the end of the day after sitting together watching perfection manifest all around us for hours we went back to Jo's home and there was a double rainbow above her house! Not only that but rainbows hit all over the area LOL. Coincidence? Maybe this time but not every time!
I've always loved the moving of the Spirit. Last year I had the amazing privilege of visiting our friend Kobus Van Rensburg twice in South Africa. Kobus has an amazing church in the nation and has for many years been seeing the most amazing signs and wonders. It's powerful being there. The walls of the auditorium are not only packed with depictions of the Cross but with thousands upon thousands of crutches and canes thrown away by the 17,000 cripples healed over the past few years! It is moving to see the dead and dying brought to the altar on beds given up by the doctors but not given up by The Doctor. Every month over 200 are healed of HIV Aids. Healings and Miracles for Kobus are not signs of revival but natural evidence and produce of a Gospel that works and declares Jesus as Lord! In all I saw with Kobus the most amazing situation I witnessed wasn't a healing or a miracle but one session where Kobus asked for Godfreys song "Are You ready ready ready" to be played, a song written by Godfrey after being impacted and hearing the multitude stories of Lives transformed at our gatherings in Wales!! Kobus called for the song and said "I want us to sing this and party, WE NEED A DRINK!!!" I was overwhelmed, here's a guy who has seen everything including the dead raised YET he knew that the 5,000 Pastors present MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE needed a DRINK!!! For Kobus healings are essential but not everything. His focus and message is not just on healing BUT rather Health and Immortality! Invading the minds of the people of God with a Gospel which declares Death as abolished and Life IMMORTAL!
Is it possible that Healings in some way have become a Golden Calf which needs addressing? How much attention and focus should be given to these things? Yep Jesus healed the sick and commanded his disciples to do the same yet he often walked past the infirmed feeling no guilt and is known more than anything for His teaching and embracing of the Poor and Broken? Paul healed the sick YET we honor him mostly for his teaching and stance against religious bigotry and self effort? Our friend Jason Westerfield visited Wales a few years back. It was an intense time together. We saw and FELT so much. I remember being with a small group outside the Welsh Assembly one day and saw Jason literally cause the clouds to peel back to reveal the Sun!! (Think what you want I'm way past caring LOL!) Being with Jason is always a treat, creation always responds with crazy weather patterns and nuts manifestations of glory. Once after leaving Jason's hotel room again with Phil Smith we were so hammered drunk, got back to my house and watched as my 2 Labradoodles in front of our very eyes turn blue LOL (Once again I'm way past caring what you think, take it up with Phil he was there yet again!!!!) I love Jason and could share so many stories of encounter I have had with him, he's also the sweetest guy I know! YET one day I asked him "Jason you see the craziest stuff all the time yet you never seem to give healings much focus?" His answer sooooo helped me, He replied "Dave healings are but one percent of the kingdom of God!" Waw, no golden calves there!
I spoke in my last update about the times I spent with Darrel Stott and Rodney Howard Browne. Two guys who have massively impacted my life and if ever I had seen a 'Revival' it was with them. When with Darrel in Jakarta I saw the Glory hit meetings ALWAYS and blow over hundreds upon hundreds of people. It was amazing to see Gods own crop circle of bodies. We were in meetings where angels would just manifest and dance with the congregation!! Other gatherings where the glory would thicken as angels spun guys around on the floor like horizontal whirlwinds! It was intense, the glory sooooo thick YET even though healings naturally happened in the Glory the focus was always on seeing guys just enjoy their union with a fun God and be transformed by encountering their True selves! Is that wrong? Darrel would always preach Life and somehow in the declaration of Life every need would be met! Rodney on the other hand gave up praying for the sick! For Rodney he said he would get so disheartened watching guys get healed in their bodies YET they would remain miserable and sad because their deeper needs hadn't been addressed only for them to come back again miserable and sick! For Rodney transformation for the whole man was the only way forward. Yes guys would get healed physically, who wouldn't in such a realm of glory, yet the focus once again was on seeing the Glory manifest and guys recognize the glory of their True selves and walk in ultimate freedom not just a partial physical healing!
It's amazing to me that the only 2 real 'Revival' situations I have been involved with both totally redefined my life and changed everything, the fruit has been lasting and constant YET healings were not a major focus? I'm not making an excuse for lack of power, I'm not saying it's wrong to desire to see more in terms of healings and miracles, we have seen and I'm anticipating more and more will see an even greater manifestation of power and Glory YET we have to get a pure perspective here. I have friends who are alive now who wouldn't of been without receiving a healing touch from God! That is so amazing and O so necessary and so beneficial for the one yet what is the bigger picture here? I've visited 'Healing Revivals' and 'Healing meetings,' been involved with ministries who's focus was almost only healings! It's been great to see displays of His power YET many of those guys have ended up burned out, fed up with Life, and needed healing themselves and not just physically! I've heard the message which is often carried in these 'Healing' meetings, it's often a language of desperation, hunger, pushing, pressing and self sacrifice! Apparently it's Revival yet all it seems to be is a revival of tears and desperation in a hope to produce 'Revival?' It all seems very schizophrenic? If God is moving why are you crying out for Him to move? If He is doing something why does he depend on our desperation to make it happen? I thought the whole point of Christ manifesting was because we couldn't do it? I've had friends burn out at Revival gatherings and actually come down with Bells Palsy and other ailments due to lack of Rest! MEETINGS MEETINGS MEETINGS! What's that all about? Listen I'm open to all sorts LOL, But when I have to leave the Rest and Satisfaction which He apparently is committed to laying as a true foundation in my Life to go after 'Another Blessing,' then It's certainly not my bag! We can have it all because we are all of it! You are the revival, you are the moving of God, you are the healer, you are the message!
The bigger picture I believe is this, God is bringing a great revelation at this time all based around the perfect work of the Cross! He perfected everything, in His sight all is well! Every soul is saved, every body is healed, every mind is transformed, every Life radiates His Glory! As the angels rightly declare 'The whole earth is filled with His Glory!' As far as God is concerned our frustrated desperation to produce is actually working against seeing Eden manifest! It's an opposing spirit. If it's not Complete it's not God, if it's not perfect it's not God, if it doesn't come from a deep place of rest it's not God! It will never be sustained, it will never continue. If we need to work hard to produce 'IT' then we will need to work even harder to maintain 'IT!' It's ok not to feel it's your responsibility to get everyone healed! Jesus DIDN'T heal every body when on the earth YET the cross did! He's releasing a revelation of the Glory of the Cross which is bringing such a deep sense of REST and a picture of a healed, transformed world! What will this produce? What will it look like when we are surrounded by apparent sickness and Death yet all we see is LIFE? What if Healing becomes a lifestyle of seeing Eden manifest rather than a meeting based around our ability to produce? For me I believe revivals, outpourings, healings will come and go, like Jason said "They represent one percent of the Kingdom." Yet love and rest remains! Remaining in this message will effortlessly produce and maintain a sustainable LIFE, a healthy LIFE, a LIFE based around family and relationship not fleeting supernatural moments! I believe He's raising up 'Pioneers of Life' Life givers, Life sources, Healers of bodies, regions, relationships and lands. Those who have seen the perfection of the Cross will now see Eden manifest all around them, EFFORTLESSLY!
I hope these updates are helping with perspectives? We can remain in Rest whilst not understanding everything. It's OK not to 'attend' because you are satisfied already! If you feel full and not in need to 'Go get Some' that's fine, I feel full too! Enjoy the Life God has given you my friend, I endorse the Life you have and the Life you are!
Big Big Hugs DAVE XX
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