Unbelievers and Free will

Often in the discussion regarding Jesus, the Savior of the World, the question regarding Free will will come up.





Here Some thoughts to really consider on Free Will?

(Nehemiah 9:7) “You are the LORD God, who Chose Abram, and brought him out of Ur of the Chaldeans, and gave him the name Abraham.”
It was not a matter of Abraham deciding to follow God by his “free will”, it was a matter of God showing mercy and calling him out.


After dozens of similar descriptions in various instances in the Old testament my question is:
Has God changed in Character since then? 
“For I the LORD do not change” 
“Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever”
the answer is NO. there is no shifting in His nature or character.

Do we really only come to the Father of our own free will?

John 6:44 NO MAN can come to me except THE FATHER that sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day.
John 6:65 And he added, "This is the very reason I told you that no people can come to me unless the Father makes it possible for them to do so."


Q: So then, if the Father draws men to Jesus, and this is not our Free will choice, then does he also leave some out in order to populate “hell”?

John 12 :32 Jesus: "when I am lifted up from the earth (crucified), I will DRAW ALL PEOPLE TO MYSELF."

(Its very interesting that the word “DRAW” here in both of these verses means to “Drag” - not very “free will-ish”, But in exactly the same was that we were not by our own “free” will included in First Adam, we are not by our own “free” will included INTO Christ.

“You did not choose me, but I chose you” (John 15:16).

Jesus says that “the Son gives life to whom he *will” (John 5:21).

1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 
1Ti 2:4 Who *will have ALL MEN to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

ethelō: (same word used in John 5:21 “will”) means: to be Resolved/Resolute or Determined, to Purpose, Intend, to Pleasure*)

(Isaiah 46:9) I am God, and there is none like me; (10) declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times things that are not yet done; saying, My counsel shall stand, and I WILL DO ALL MY *PLEASURE. 
(Do we really believe that our “free” will can thwart His Ultimate plan? I believe that Love NEVER FAILS.)



(Romans 9:15) For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.” (16) So then IT IS NOT OF HIM WHO WILLS, nor of him who runs, BUT OF GOD who shows mercy.
( So it’s not the one who works for their salvation or THEIR WILL TO CHOOSE salvation in Jesus; it’s simply God’s mercy.

And then again, Paul clearly confirms a short while later who His choice is:

Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded ALL in UNBELIEF, that he may have MERCY ON ALL.


Guys, where is our free will in all this??


(2 Timothy 1:9) God, who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, BUT ACCORDING TO HIS OWN PURPOSE AND GRACE.
That’s why Paul calls Grace and Faith Gifts in Eph 2 – if they were not gifts from start to finish there would be room for Boasting.
Rom 3:26 for the shewing forth of his righteousness in the present time, so that he should be just, and justify him that is of the faith OF Jesus. 
Rom 3:27 Where then is boasting? It has been excluded. By what law? of works? No, but by law of faith; 
Rom 3:28 for we reckon that a man is justified by faith, without works of law.
(Question: ….and who’s Faith is Paul talking about here that Justifies us? 
Answer: see Vs 26: it's THE FAITH OF JESUS!).


Who chooses who by who’s free will?


(Ephesians 1:4) He CHOSE US in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him

“God from the beginning CHOSE YOU for salvation” (2 Thes 2:13)
(God does the choosing, not us.)


Unfree will...

No person who sees and understands the love of God our Father, wilfully rejects it. It is not a will that is free that reject this love; it is a will in bondage. No person has ever, out of his/her own free will rejected our Lord, rather it is because of  ignorance, because of blindness that some have made uninformed choices. 

Man’s “free” will is simply a product of his past influences: a muslim man who by his “free” will chooses to worship allah is Hardly expressing any “Free” will! He is simply making an informed decision based on His up-bringing! If in his life time – in this age – he hears one of the very many versions of the Gospel and rejects it, was that really a “free” will rejection after a life time of indoctrination inclined to Islam? I doubt it! (I hear Jesus’ words “father forgive them for they are ignorant”…. 
If our “free” will leads to faithlessness then God REMAINS Faithfull.
The good news, however, is that God, and we as his co-workers, are in the business of making the truth plainly known.

He is both willing and able to make Himself known to any and every man, in a way that is as unique as the individual. The good news is that He took, takes, and will take the initiative to do this! 
Romans 10:20: Then Isaiah is so bold as to say, “I have been found by those who did not 
seek me; I have shown myself to those who did not ask for me.” (Our free will???)


Tradition

Christians are taught that the one thing God would never violate, is man’s free will. The erroneous conclusion states that a man’s free will is more sacred and more powerful than God’s eternal purpose. It incorrectly assumes that a person who rejects God is free, for they do so from a FREE will!


Saul (Paul) was described as “breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord”. We are not dealing with a weak-willed, indifferent person here. He considered Jesus and Jesus’ teaching to be his enemy and did whatever possible to stop it. Later Paul described himself as the chief of sinners.

Do you think that Paul’s strong opposition and determined will, was a problem for Jesus? 
Can you imagine the Father and Jesus conversing regarding Paul and saying: 
“What will we do! We can’t interfere with his ‘free will’”
Ridiculous!

Jesus knew that Paul’s enmity against Him was rooted in ignorance; He knew that if Paul saw Him for who He truly is, there would be no argument. Jesus knew that Paul did not act from his own “FREE” will, but from deception, and therefore He had no problem with interfering in his life. His stubbornness was no obstacle to the love of God. We all know well what happened!

No wonder that Paul’s whole testimony and message is centered around the initiative of God and not around the contribution of man.
In Galatians he emphasizes that this encounter with God had nothing to do with his decision, but all to do with God’s decision! In fact it was zealously persecuting the church … “But when it 
pleased God … who called me by his grace …to reveal his Son in me.” Gal 1:15, 16


Question: Did God treat Paul differently from the rest of us – does he show Partiality to Paul by messing with his “Free” will?
 Did God change... Just for Paul?

Phi 2:9 – 13: Therefore God has highly exalted Him, and has given Him a name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of heavenly ones, and of earthly ones, and of ones under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, cultivate your own salvation with fear and trembling.
*For it is God who works in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure.*

Did you see that last part? “…IT IS GOD who works in you both to WILL and to DO …” 
I am so glad that our Father does not consider my will off limits! 
I’m so glad He influences my desires, my will, my everything.



Cheers

Hell - part 2

A Common Question proposing the existence of an eternal Hell:
"Jesus himself clearly spoke and warned people about hell several times in the gospels. He calls it a lake of fire and a place of weeping and gnashing of teeth. He mentions hell in the story of the rich man and Lazarus but not at all in the parable of the lost son. Surely he would have made that comparison if that is how we are to understand it? Jesus makes “hell” sound like a terrible lot/ end, so it truly must be…. and hell does seem like a place (of spiritual death) to me. Luke 13:28 “There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out.
Please help me understand how these words don’t mean what they say."



Reply by Andre Rabe:

"Let me first say that although this writing focused on a hell and heaven that begins here and now, I believe it also continues in the hereafter. There are many pictures of hell that have not been informed by scripture, but rather by legends and human imagination. And so there are many assumptions that have no clear support in scripture. I believe Jesus meant exactly what He said … and His audience understood it in the context he spoke in.

The following is not a comprehensive teaching on hell, but just some guiding thoughts. Firstly ‘hell’ is an English translation that carries with it many pictures not present in the language Jesus spoke. The two words He used are Gehenna, which was a physical place outside Jerusalem. It had an infamous beginning during a time that the people fell away from God and burned their children as sacrifices to their idols. It is interesting to see what God thought of such a practice  “to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire [in honor of Molech, the fire god]–which I did not command, nor did it come into My mind or heart.” Jer 7:31

Later on this location became the rubbish heap outside Jerusalem, where there were continual fires to burn the rubbish and worms eating the leftovers. One of the worst judgements that a court could pass on a criminal, was that his body would not receive a proper burial, but simply be discarded in Gehenna. This was a judgement considered so serious that only the Sahedrin could impose it.
In this context Jesus said: “But I say to you that everyone who continues to be angry with his brother or harbors malice (enmity of heart) against him shall be liable to and unable to escape the punishment imposed by the court; and whoever speaks contemptuously and insultingly to his brother shall be liable to and unable to escape the punishment imposed by the Sanhedrin, and whoever says, You cursed fool! [You empty-headed idiot!] shall be liable to and unable to escape the hell (Gehenna) of fire.” Mt 5:22

To Jesus’ audience His words were very clear – He spoke about a real judgement that could be passed by the Sanhedrin …. not our concepts of an unending torture chamber.

Throughout the OT the Hebrew word Sheol was used, which is often also translated hell. However the OT does not have concept that Sheol is a place of eternal punishment. It was simply the place of the dead – righteous and unrighteous. Whenever the OT warned of judgement and Sheol, it spoke of imminent real destruction.

In the same way, many places where Jesus spoke about ‘weeping and grinding of teeth.’, he spoke about the literal destruction of Jerusalem that happened in 70AD.
In Mat 24:34 he specifically says: “this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place”

So in conclusion. I believe in a hell that begins here and and now and continues hereafter. However many of the concepts I’ve had of hell were not informed by the scriptures. Many of the places where Jesus spoke of ‘hell’ were relevant to the audience he spoke to and the literal destruction that was about to take place. I’ve heard people say before that Jesus spoke of hell more than anyone else. No He did not! (LOL - the funny thing is that if they are talking about finances they will also tell you that Jesus spoke more about Finances than anything else!!) Jesus did not speak about our traditional ‘concepts’ of hell. He spoke about Gehenna – a real physical place – and he spoke of Hades, the unseen realm.

To not know God, to not enter into what we have been designed for, is to destroy ourselves – there can be no greater hell than that. It is self-imposed … God’s arms are always open – He never changes.


Please see my blog on Lazurus and the rich man for an Historic contextual understanding of this Parable: Lazurus and the rich man
Please also see my blog on the historic development of the word relating to "Eternity" in our english Bible Translations: To Infinity and Beyond!!!

Hell -part1

The following is written by Andre Rabe regarding  the traditional myth we have come to understand as "Hell".


I enjoy what Karl Barth had to say about it:“Should the teaching about hell be a part of the proclamation of the gospel? No, no, no! The proclamation of the gospel means, rather, the proclamation that Christ has defeated hell, that Christ suffered hell in our place, and that it has allowed for us to live with Christ and so to have hell behind us”- Karl Barth (Gesamtausgabe, 25:111)Amazing that Paul, who writes almost 2/3 of the new testament, does not devote one chapter to the subject … not even one paragraph! In fact he mentions hell only once: “O Death, where is your sting? O Hell, where is your victory?” (1 Cor 15:55)

We don’t even have to theorize about the future, we can simply involve ourselves in the lives of people around us and know for certain there is a hell, a place of torment and suffering. However, I also know that whatever torment people are suffering is not a torment placed on them by God. He is consistent. He demonstrated in Christ that He would rather go to hell Himself than abandon us to it. So whatever hell people experience is a hell of there own making and it is as real as it is unnecessary.

So many think of heaven and hell as ‘somewhere else’ and ‘some other time’, namely, the hereafter. But there is a heaven and there is a hell that starts right here and right now.

When Jesus taught on prayer, He did not say: “Father, help us escape from this world and go to heaven where your will is done”. No! He said: “Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven” Mt 6:10

He had a vision of heaven coming to earth. The gospel is first of all not a message of how to enter heaven, but of how God emptied heaven to enter man!

The story of the lost son and his older brother is such a vivid picture of what heaven and hell is in the here and now. You can read the story in Luke 15 to get the context, I’ll get straight to the point.

The younger son wastes his inheritance and faces great hardship in a foreign land. He eventually comes to himself and realises that even the slaves in his father’s house has a better life than he does.

He starts imagining what to tell his father. During the the long journey home, he recites this story to himself. We pick up the story in verse 19: “I’ll say to him, Father, I’ve sinned against God, I’ve sinned before you; I don’t deserve to be called your son. Take me on as a hired hand.’ He got right up and went home to his father.

“When he was still a long way off, his father saw him. His heart pounding, he ran out, embraced him, and kissed him. The son started his speech: ‘Father, I’ve sinned against God, I’ve sinned before you; I don’t deserve to be called your son ever again.’

“But the father wasn’t listening. He was calling to the servants, ‘Quick. Bring a clean set of clothes and dress him. Put the family ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. Then get a grain-fed heifer and roast it. We’re going to feast! We’re going to have a wonderful time!”

The father had a different point of view, a different speech, a different story that included restoration and a party!

Heaven begins for the younger son when he abandons his own point of view, his well recited speech, and simply flings himself into the arms of his father, accepting his point of view, his story. Heaven begins when we let go of every excuse we can think of, not to enjoy the father’s embrace. Heaven begins when we let go of the guilt and go with the flow of a party that we did not deserve, but nevertheless is the desire of our father.

Just let Him kiss you! Just let Him embrace you, and enjoy the party!

Let’s pick up the older brother’s story from verse 25: “All this time his older son was out in the field. When the day’s work was done he came in. As he approached the house, he heard the music and dancing. Calling over one of the houseboys, he asked what was going on. He told him, ‘Your brother came home. Your father has ordered a feast—barbecued beef!—because he has him home safe and sound.’

“The older brother stalked off in an angry sulk and refused to join in. His father came out and tried to talk to him, but he wouldn’t listen. The son said, ‘Look how many years I’ve stayed here serving you, never giving you one moment of grief, but have you ever thrown a party for me and my friends? Then this son of yours who has thrown away your money on whores shows up and you go all out with a feast!’

“His father said, ‘Son, you don’t understand. You’re with me all the time, and everything that is mine is yours—but this is a wonderful time, and we had to celebrate. This brother of yours was dead, and he’s alive! He was lost, and he’s found!’”

The older brother also has a point of view, a perspective in which he saw himself as a diligent and hard working man, and deserving of much more than his younger brother. He does not see his father as generous towards him, or even as a fair man!

As with the younger son, the father tries to persuade him of a different perspective, a different view of himself and their relationship.

Hell is being with the father, yet not knowing him.

Hell is being at the party, but not joining in, sulking because of the father’s generosity towards the less deserving. It would have been less of a hell if it was somewhere else – the music, the smells, the joy in the air is what makes the older brother’s attitude so hellish!

Hell is possessing everything the father owns, but still slaving away, trying to gain what you think you don’t have.

Hell begins when you cling to your own opinion, your own point of view, when you refuse the father’s version of your story.

It seems that the more focused we are on a heaven and a hell that is somewhere else and some other time, the less involved we are in bringing heaven to earth, here and now."

Please also see Part 2 for some further things to consider.
Paul's words of exhortation about the Berians being very Noble because they actually made an effort to check up what he was saying to them rings true still today.
Many a time we keep" flogging our dead horse traditional theology" because we are afraid to step out of line from what others around us believe. We find our acceptance in others opinions of us instead of what our Dad thinks of us.
I sincerely encourage you to be "man-enough" to at least take the time and effort to look at the facts regarding our traditional "eternal hell" myth.  -Andrew